|
Pages: 1 2 »
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: ATA, money, etc (split from Breeders Guide) (Read 4203 times)
|
|
|
|
|
fuzzy
Guest
|
BINGO!!  I have let my ATA membership lapse because I only have a gelding and the people doing the show results left him out of the magazine most of the times I sent in results. It was only after I B----- on the internet that a couple of his results were published. I'll renew to get him branded,and renew in the future probably only when I have foals to register, which will only be once every few years. For what a non-breeder gets, a $75 membership is too high.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joy
ata
Old Hand
 Offline
Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
|
The ATA has 4 magazine and several newsletters. I think there's a publication every month. The ISR/OLDNA has a newsletter every month and the Stallion Directory. They charge $50 membership, and $30 per breeding mare. I don't know what other registries charge. I do know the bulk of the costs are paid by breeders in the ISR.
I'm dismayed to hear that you've had a problem getting your gelding's show results printed. That should never have happened.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jennifer
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 323
|
You will not see items about Trakehners, or other breeds for that matter, like the little "newsy bits" reported in Hunter and Sporthorse in magazines like Equus or Dressage Today. I don't read Horse Illustrated, so I can't comment on that one. These magazines have different directions, or missions, and styles. Equus is mostly about horses in general (articles about health care, feeding, fencing, barn design, farriers, diseases, foaling, repro problems, etc) and doesn't regularly report performance/show news or have articles (or "newsy bits") about breeders and the horses they are producing. Timely performance info is in magazines like the Chronicle of the Horse, Dressage Daily, Eurodressage News, etc. Dressage Today mostly has articles that are more technical or that are related to riding issues, reports about clinics, and reports about top riders/horses/the big horse shows.
As to membership (and other) fees, I don't think they are at all out of line with other warmblood memberships. You cannot compare the services and benefits (like magazines) that you may receive with your warmblood registry membership with what you might receive from membership in a large breed registry like an Arabian organization. You should always compare pier organizations. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.
Here are some examples of fees from the American Hanoverian Society (AHS). You can go to its web site for more examples. http://www.hanoverian.org/fees.html
$80 Active membership
$55 Associate membership
$30 Annual dues for active mares (breeding)
$40 Reactivation fee for mares
$185 Foal registration (during birth year)
$235 Yearling registration (year after birth year)
NA Gelding reg. fee (no comparable for Hanoverian)
$150 Fee for using foreign-approved sire (approved by the Verband in Germany [this includes Hanoverians and others like Trakehners, Oldenburgs, Dutch], but not approved in the US through inspection by the AHS)
Similar fees for the ATA. More may be seen at the website http://www.americantrakehner.com/The%20ATA/FeeSched.htm
$75 Active membership
NA Associate membership (no comparable)
NA No annual fees for active breeding mares
$85 Foal registration (1 year or less from date of birth) member fee ($185 non-member fee)
$150 Yearling Registration (over 1 year and less than 2 years old from date of birth) member fee ($250 non-member fee)
$40 Gelding registration at any age, member fee ($140 non-member fee)
NA No fee to use any stallion approved by the German Verband since the ATA is a sister registry.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 08:52:37 AM by Jennifer »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joy
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
|
Thank you, Jennifer. I am dismayed when I see so many people faulting the ATA for high fees, and yet, as you pointed out, the ATA is not out of line with other registries. The thing is, the ATA is much smaller than the other registries, and the intake in total is much less, so has to be spread very thin.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tannenwald Trakehner
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 935
TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
|
I am dismayed when I see so many people faulting the ATA for high fees, and yet, as you pointed out, the ATA is not out of line with other registries. The thing is, the ATA is much smaller than the other registries, and the intake in total is much less, so has to be spread very thin.
Maybe another thread should be started on this topic. Do Trakehners have the same market appeal that Hanoverians do? My unfortunate conclusion, as a breeder, is that they do not.
I think money the ATA has that is "available" for advertising is better spent on outside promotion than on a project like this, which as discussed, would be strictly for internal promotion. That said, funding it by independent advertising would be the way to go. I STILL like the idea of combining a breeders' guide and auction book, with the publication supported by advertisers (but featuring a "free" photo/comment/detail page for the stallions who have breedings donated, as discussed).
SO's, are there REALLY not enough ways to promote your horse internally to member/breeders? Between the ATA website, your individual websites, magazine advertisements (varying cost--not everyone buys a full page in color), auction book, or direct mail to the relatively small membership? It just seems to me that if a breeder/mare-owner/breeder wannabe can't find the Trakehner-licensed stallions, they cannot be looking that hard.
Fuzzy, would 3 or 4 issues of the mag (as opposed to 2) make it worthwhile to stay a member? What IS it that a member wants to feel being a member is worth the membership fee? And what is it that a breeder wants to feel that they are getting the value of the fees they pay? I think those are the questions that need to be asked before assessing fees, because if the people charged the fees don't feel they are getting value they will leave.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 09:23:56 AM by Tannenwald Trakehner »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
 |
ATA, money,
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2004, 10:41:27 AM » |
|
Thank you, Jennifer. I am dismayed when I see so many people faulting the ATA for high fees, and yet, as you pointed out, the ATA is not out of line with other registries. The thing is, the ATA is much smaller than the other registries, and the intake in total is much less, so has to be spread very thin.
The membership is dropped significantly and the cost of membership is partly to blame. The "larger" organizations, i.e: Arabian Horse, APHA AQHA ect ect DID NOT Grow by starting out charging MORE and then drop the costs later on. That is why I don't understand why people keep using this " but they're bigger than us,  so they can charge less" excuse. Did they start by charging $75 a year and then drop it down? I don't think so. Many of these organizations are perfect examples of how to successfully be inviting to new owners. We can learn from them if we are willing to learn. I think the Trakehner organization should take a closer look at other breed organizations history and growth and learn from them.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
|
ATA, money,
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2004, 10:44:18 AM » |
|
You will not see items about Trakehners, or other breeds for that matter, like the little "newsy bits" reported in Hunter and Sporthorse in magazines like Equus or Dressage Today. I don't read Horse Illustrated, so I can't comment on that one. These magazines have different directions, or missions, and styles.
Jennifer,
The point is advertising the breed. Most dressage horses are not paints, though you see them advertised in the Dressage Today. Advertising works.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
|
ATA, money,
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2004, 11:06:10 AM » |
|
Tannenwald & Suzette,
You have stated the case so well.
I agree that the breed promotion is lacking.
And that YES Thank you for stating that there
is already enough information out there on these stallions
& not to mention the fact that you can contact the stallion
owner for more information, including videos & acctually
visiting the horse. It is great that the stallions are already
highly visible and promoted & I think we do enough in this area, I especially liked the add in Hunter & Sport Horse of the
donated Fututity Stallions. A very small Futurity in Wisconsin did the same thing with their Futurity stallions in a national publication & I see that as a positive thing & that it was paid for with the actual $ raised for that purpose. Breeders and owners wish for the breed to grow, be recognized and be able to if not have actual Trakehner shows, have Trakehner classes at shows (like is currently done), I think the Merit Awards and all Awards/ Recognition is something owners look for. When an organization like MidWest Trakehners is in action, and you join it, do you get a reduced fee for joining ATA? I know I joined Northern Illinois Arabian Horse Activity Club or Wisconsin Arabian Horse Association and when you join them, they forward your Arabian Horse Assoc. membership fees to AHA. Then you get a membership card from AHA with your club affiliate on it. I then can work toward Awards with both organizations and go to shows for both organizations. I also then get a newsletter for NIAHAC, NIAHAC has a Futurity, year end high point awards, parties, ect ect. AHA sends six publications a year plus all the information on all of their national shows (Youth, Sporthorse, US Nationals & Canadian Nationals & Scottsdale,AZ show). There are many benefits with AHA and they too were a breed that started out from merely imports- and it was not that long ago & now they are now one of the larger, healthy functioning organization in the US.
There needs to be a restructuring somewhere in the ATA, we do need to grow & have healthy membership numbers to stay strong and be a lasting organization, and we don't want to overcharge mare owners & breeders, it does only inhibit and deter registration/ membership. Acctually I think the finances will be healthier with lower costs, as it encourages participation.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
Tannenwald Trakehner
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 935
TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
|
Fuzzy, would 3 or 4 issues of the mag (as opposed to 2) make it worthwhile to stay a member? What IS it that a member wants to feel being a member is worth the membership fee? And what is it that a breeder wants to feel that they are getting the value of the fees they pay? I think those are the questions that need to be asked before assessing fees, because if the people charged the fees don't feel they are getting value they will leave.
Well, I guess I will answer my own question. I think if I just owned a Trakehner or cross (as opposed to wanting to breed them), I would not bother being a member of the organization. I say this because in the past I have owned a Morgan and an Arabian and did not join those registries. I do not show (not "big time" anyway), was not interested in breeding Arabians or Morgans, and didn't really care what was going on in the show circuits for either breed, so didn't really care about publications. I didn't care about voting in those organizations. If I were buying or selling and paying a membership fee would lessen the cost of registration on the transaction, I would pick up the membership.
I can only assume that there would be people who are "mere owners" of Trakehners who would feel the same way. So it is hard to say what cost of membership would justify the investment if someone were standing in those shoes.
What are the benefits of membership to a non-breeder?
- Cheaper registration fees if you buy or sell
- Knowing you are supporting your breed org.
- Getting the magazine/newsletter to know what is going on with the org.
- Seeing your horse's/horse's relatives names in print in the show results
- Promoting contacts with other people who have horses of your horse's breed
- Getting to vote at the annual meeting (but only IF you invest in GOING to the annual meeting--this is another pet issue of mine, but would be a whole 'nother thread, too).
Did I miss anything?
Now, what other (in addition to those above) benefits can a breeder hope to get from membership?
- Ability to register offspring from their horses (but this involves more fees than just membership--inspections, licensing, etc)
- Promotion of the breed to the horse community at large via advertising, website, other PR, etc.
- Publicity for the individual farm via heightened awareness of your horses/farm within the breed (amongst recipients of publications), through "news" items, mare & foal profiles, etc.
- Publicity for the individual farm via information on the org. website
What am I missing (I know there are other things that occur to other people).
Since membership dues, registrations/inspection fees pretty well drive the organization's budget, it seems that breeders do in fact drive the running of the association. "Mere owner" members provide a lot of support through membership dues, also (judging by the latest P&L in the newsletter. Since I think breeders are interested in publicity, focussing on those things that provide publicity would best serve the interest of the members who drive the association. So it follows that outside promotion as well as inside promotion (ie, the website) should be priorities. If the clincher of providing value to members is the mag, that should be a priority also.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 12:27:52 PM by Boss Mare »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jennifer
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 323
|
People have different horse-related expectations, so I would anticipate different answers to this question. I know that I owned a Trakehner for years and did not show or breed her, but I still maintained my ATA memebership. It has been worth it to me to get the magazines over the 20 or so years I've been an ATA member. I like the blood line articles, the performance news, and the inspection news. I think I own a copy of all of the ATA magazines that have been published including some of the orignial ones that were black and white and had plain covers. Lots of good information in English for those of us who are German-language-impared!
Members get free advertizing of sales horses on the internet at the ATA web site that is in a format that I think is very good when you compare it to other registry web sites' ads. A picture, pedigree, owner contact, and a description of your horse that can be as long as you like. You can get links to your farm web site.
The ATA does advertise in many national magazines. This is not cheap. But, I don't think advertizing in some of these magazines is really worth the money. How many people reach for Equus when they are looking for a stallion or buying a horse? I don't think very many people do. Often if they are looking for a stallion from a particular breed they go to the registry web site first.
I think more money should be spent to keep the web site updated. As has been mentioned already, some of the stallion owner contact info, stallion performance info and info about stallions' offspring are outdated. Maybe the web site could also include links to articles in magazines about Trakehners (performance stories/breeders in US and Germany/etc). I've noticed that there have been more web site updates in the past month or so which is great!
But, I'd like to have a supplement for the stallion book. That's the lose-leaf note-book-style. I like being able to page through it looking up pedigrees and looking at the photos of the stallions. I think it is a good reference to have at hand particularly since the photos of the inactive (dead, retired, gelded) stallions are often not on the ATA web site for some reason. And I like being able to just pull out the book rather than having to rely on my computer all of the time! Technology is a blessing and curse sometimes! And I don't think I can ever have too many books!
There's my 2 cents for the day!
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 01:38:24 PM by Jennifer »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
It is interesting to think about how people chose the breed they become so loyal to. They see Swedish Warmbloods, Oldenburgs, Palominos, Tenn. Walkers, Saddlebreds, American Warmbloods, Paints, Arabians, Fresians or Quarter horses promoted and they think, wow what an awesome horse! And then they look into it more [websites, articles, farms, books, shows,ect.] and sharpen their interest.
Advertising and being in the public eye to promote the BREED not just the stallions will promote the Trakehner. Advertising creates an interest in the breed, deepens peoples' desire to know moren about the breed.
JMHO, by just promoting the stallions- you are assuming someone already owns a mare or that someone wants to breed and raise a foal. Many people, would much rather simply buy a four year old or older horse that is already grown and started under saddle. So, really you are assuming that the best way to promote the breed is to assume that someone new to Trakehners is ready to start their own breeding program?
If we are putting money out there it should be to promote the breed and its history and abilities- not simply its stallions. The stallions are nicely showcased on the website and the ones who donate to the Futurity are nicely promoted in the booklet for the stallion auction, as well as the very nice add of the Futurity Stallions in Hunter and Sport horse Magazine which was acctually a great idea. I am glad we all challenge each other to stretch our brains and our usual thought patterns. It is good to be able to be free to discuss our opinions . 
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2004, 10:44:55 PM by Christina »
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
sew
ata
Novice
Offline
Posts: 20
|
I own two Trakehners (and have for the past few years), however I have never joined the ATA because of the cost. I do show and have to get numbers and memberships for myself and my horses through USDF, USEF, GMOs, etc. It just gets to be too much, especially having other horsey related costs. I really don't think that I would get much out of an ATA membership for that price, as I only own geldings. The only benefit to me would be the magazine and maybe going for the awards. So paying the $75 fee each year would be a huge waste of money, IMHO. This year I will join to get a lower fee to register my yearling. I am very passionate about the breed and promote them myself. I'm very proud to be a Trakehner owner. Should the yearly fees be reduced maybe even to $50, I'd be more than happy to join on a yearly basis.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Karim
Guest
|
Somehow this doesn't make too much sense  We have all seen the Profit & loss Statements that the ATA publishes in the Trakehner Times & we are all aware how thin the margin is.
The difference b/t $75 per year & $50 per year for Annual Membership is $25 per year which translates into $2.083 per month!!!
Let's get real, NO organizarion can do it alone without the financial backing of its members!
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 20, 2004, 09:56:13 PM by Karim »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
sew
ata
Novice
Offline
Posts: 20
|
It doesn't matter how much it comes down to a month. I just purchased a horse that cost as much as a new car, plus I have a youngster. I do pay board on both of these animals, farrier, vet, showing, USEF & USDF fees, etc. and I don't have money running out of my ears. I can't see spending $75 a year on two magazines and I can read the newsletter online. What else do I get for the $75? I don't plan on listing any horses for sale, nor do I plan on breeding since I have two geldings.
I would like to support the ATA and I am very passionate about Trakehners. Although I have not seen the balance sheet for the ATA, I do understand that an orgainzation does need the backing from its members. However, don't you think that any organization would have more members if the price were lower? I believe that people would be more inclined to join if the price is lower, supply and demand theory. More members, more money.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joy
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
|
But by that same logic, would someone with a gelding still join the ATA even at $50? I admit I gave a little gasp when the membership fee went up, but since it's one of my priorities, I keep my membership even in a non-breeding year, and even (like now) when I don't own Trakehners. If it goes up again, I'll probably reconsider. Maybe it's time for a poll.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
If Breed associations assume that only a few more dollars won't hurt anybody- what they don't realize is they are not the only expense we have & when organizations like AHA charge less and offer more.... it is hard to justify spending $75 for a membership. 
Look at the facts:
The Membership went down by $6,000.00---so that is not just a few of us with the opinion of the cost is too high. Then you feel the effects of the membership being down also in the breeding fees, ect because they were down by $9,000.00
The income from stallion and mare inspections was down $8,000.00.
Magazine advertising was down $900.00
Magazine Subscription was down by $730.00
It looks like from 02 to 03 ATA saved $7,000.00 by dropping the magazine publication down- but how much did they lose?
On the other side of this with the advertising, our National organization that has an income of 270,000.00 a year spent only a whopping $1622 on advertising in '02 - though I must say they doubled that in '03 making it $3900. Though I'd like to know where it was spent. Hopefully not just on the stallion auction, which is simply a money maker & not telling everyone what a wonderful breed this is, which is what advertising for the ATA should be doing. High dues and under advertising is not healthy for any business.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 23, 2004, 12:02:45 PM by Christina »
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
Jennifer
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 323
|
The financial data for 2003 that are included in the May/June newsletter (its on the ATA website) indicate that the ATA organization is $12,807.33 in the hole. This includes a reduction in expences created by dropping the cost of publishing one magazine and the increased expence of more advertizing.
The data also show that the 2003 revenue was $268,063.54 and expences totaled $280.870.87.
In 2002 there was a small profit of $843.02.
Where will the money for more advertizing come from if the cost of a membership is decreased? Drop/reduce the office staff? Drop/reduce the website? Drop/reduce awards? Something else?
Everyone has been hit with rising gasoline costs. This will, no doubt, be added to the costs of everything not just fuel for your cars and trucks. Anything that has to be transported to be sold or which requires energy to produce will become increasingly expensive: grain, office products, equipment, clothes, groceries, etc. I think we're bound to see a big increase in the cost to mail letters pretty soon. I would not be surprised to see the ATA expenses really increase this year. I can't see how reducing membership fees, or any of the registration fees will benefit the organization. I don't think fee reductions will cause people to run to join the ATA in great numbers that would offset the loss in revenue that would be created by a reduction in membership fees.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 02:35:28 PM by Jennifer »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joy
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
|
It would be interesting to see how the membership numbers was affected when the dues increased. If we lost many members, then that would be an indication that increasing fees hurt revenues.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
fuzzy
Guest
|
Perhaps the ATA could consider a couple different levels of membership. Those of us who aren't having horses born, registered and inspected (and have gelded our boy horses) get only a few newsletters and a couple (largely breeder-oriented) magazines for $75. That much money per year can darn near keep a person in Equus, PH, and DT for a year. When approached as a comparison like this, of course people aren't keeping their memberships.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 »
|
|
|
|
 |
