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Topic: Breeders Guide (Read 5660 times)
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fuzzy
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The zone idea is a good one - some of us don't like to use a horse we can't meet in person - or at least some of his existing kids.
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Eileen
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Joy,
ROI is return on investment, at least in the business world, may be different in the world of law, but I doubt it.
As a mare owner, I still considered the stud fee to have been donated by the stallion owner. I enjoy the stallion auction because it brings to mind stallions I may not have considered without the booklet. That being said, I still would not consider a stallion that I thought might not be the best match for my mare.
As to the Breeders' Guide, I can see both perspectives. Maybe a compromise would be the full display we now have for those stallions with a donated breeding in the front of the book. In the back of the book, a listing of all other approved stallions with only dam/sire and who and how to contact, no other info. These could be in much smaller print. Those mare owners interested in those stallions would have to do more digging on their own.
I think our stallion owners are sometimes called on to donate more than their share, as if they are making a ton of money on their breedings. When you look at the number of breedings, this is almost never, if ever, the case. It costs so much to stand and promote a stallion successfully. As mare owners, we depend on the success/popularity of the stallion to a great extent to help sell the foals. I also realize this is what brings the breedings back to the stallion. It is a circle in which all must participate.
Maybe we need to find a way to promote and recognize our mare lines as well. Since they are half or more of the equation, perhaps there should be some way for them to participate in the breeders' guide as well -- gets larger and more expensive quickly.
Maybe an option would be to assess both the mare owners and non-donating stallion owners a small fee to be in the book. Maybe the fees could be rated by amount of info or something.
Just a thought. And very possibly not a good one.
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Oakstable
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This thread is a few days old and I am coming in a bit late. I am jumping in with just a skim of what precedes.
Mare owners need an accurate listing of approved stallions, period. The listing needs to give current status of approval, summary of performance accomplishments, and accurate information on contact information, (web site, e-mail, etc.).
It would be great if there is a breeders guide in print, but at the very least, it needs to exist on the internet. Print publications are very expensive. The Dutch Warmblood registry now distributes their stallion directory on a CD.
The ATA auction catalog provides information about certain stallions that does not appear elsewhere. This information needs to get on the ATA web site. The listings on the ATA web site are bare bones, or outdated, in some cases.
I think any SO who wants outside breedings needs a professional web site at the very least and make sure that the URL is on the ATA web site.
Some years back, the AHS upgraded their stallion directory from a guide handled by a volunteer (a physician!) to a directory published by someone in the graphics field. It made a huge difference. It draws a lot of advertising and is an excellent resource on bloodlines.
I think a stallion directory in whatever format should be one of the highest priorities of the ATA. Maybe the auction guide can be scaled down from being a booklet to a flier sent to all ATA members naming which stallions appear in the auction and referring members back to the web site and the stallion directory.
The Dutch Warmblood registry is relatively small, compared to the Oldenburg ISR registry and the AHS registry. I think it would be useful to see what they do -- like publish highlights of news from Holland. I would like to see highlights from Germany on Trakehners in top competition.
I think that the ATA web site attempting to post news on stallions's get is simply unrealistic. That should be left to the stallion owners to publish on their respective web sites.
I have said this in other threads, but I think Trakehner SO and breeders need to be conscious of what is being done in the sporthorse market in general. There are people who are strictly Trakehner people, but the larger market has people like myself who are interested in bloodlines across the sporthorse spectrum. (I have two German-bred Trakehner mares, but I also have two Dutch mares, an OV-approved TB mare and a retired Hanoverian mare.)
FWIW
~Sally
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Proud owner of Trakehner mares Lucy and Summer.
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Joy
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CD's, at a nominal fee, could be an option for those who don't have internet, but it seems like most stallion auctions this year were actually internet based. I'm sure cost and timeliness had a lot to do with that.
I'm with you, though, Sally. I like a hard copy to carry around with me. Drool looks terrible on the keyboard...
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Manjana Mom
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I know this sounds sort of simplistic, but why not do it as a loose leaf binder with glossy pages being mailed to the membership when new stallions are approved with all necessary data. That way, each member can arrange them (or drool over them) in whatever order they choose, and after the initial set up cost of sending out already approved stallions, the addition of new ones could be done annually at a reduced cost. Also, if a stallion owner wanted to update their page, they could mail out an ammended version. (changes in contract information, updates to performance status, etc....) I know that personnally, updates on stallions would be very educational if nothing else. As someone new to the breed, it is hard to keep it all straight. Thanks for listening!!
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fuzzy
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Suzette, you're right, if the contact info is there and accurate, a listing of stallions by zone isn't that important, but the AHSA zone breakdown of the show scene can quite possibly make locating competing offspring easier, but that's not info you're going to get in a directory anyhow.
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Manjana Mom
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I don't think that keeping the same paper stock etc is as important as just a similar general format. The information should be supplied to the breeder (kind of a fill in the blank survey format that could be electronically handled). After the first year, the new stallions are all that need to be added. Possibly if a Verband stallion wants to be in the directory, the could pay a setup fee to included in the annual stallion mailing. Getting the first listing free to ATA inspected stallions would be a perk for all of the trouble and expense they go through to get a stallion successfully through the process. As far as someone complaining that they would have to "organize it" seems like they are looking to complain. From my standpoint I would probably take all of my favorites out of the binder, spread them out on a table and sort and organize by faults/bloodlines/accessibility etc... Sounds like more fun than flipping back and forth. But, then, I am a novice in this. Mine is just the perspective of being a newby. I really DO need to lay them all out to compare!!! 
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Joy
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I don't think the paper stock is all that important either. If there are differences from year to year, well--so be it. Much better than not seeing the stallions. And Manjana Mom, I like your idea about laying them all out. I'm not a newbie, but that sure appeals to me as well.
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Jennifer
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The loose leaf notebook is the item to which I was referring in my earlier post. I think as long as it has the same number of holes and the pages are the same size it would be fine! Of course, page size may be related to the paper stock problem. So, maybe it is not so easy.
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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Stock type is an issue because the new pages will be integrated with old pages, and so matching paper makes it all look nicer.
Paper size is not a problem as the sheets will be trimmed anyway.
By way of keeping costs down in future productions, I would suggest making the page sizes 5.5 x 8.5, or full sheet size, as that allows the use of half sheets. The current SB page size is 6 x 9, which causes paper wastage and more expense, since full sheets need to be trimmed and almost half a sheet is wasted.
Also, note that loose-leaf type productions will cost more, both in the investment in the binder cover and in the drilling & shrink wrapping of the pages. The cheaper way to make a booklet is to do perfect binding, but that does preclude the swapping out of pages as revisions become available.
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Joy
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All the stock beiing the same may look nicer, but for me, at least, it's really not an issue. I'd rather have a variation in stock than not have the book. The ISR/OLDNA charges a fee for each mare that's bred, both breeding year and foaling year. That's an idea the ATA might consider to cover costs of the guide. I'm not sure what other registries do. What do others think of this idea?
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Boss Mare
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Putting this back in because the message was moved to the daughter thread 
All the stock beiing the same may look nicer, but for me, at least, it's really not an issue. I'd rather have a variation in stock than not have the book.
As I said, keeping the paper the same year to year (with the same type of printing) is not the issue. The paper search relates to printing the update to the existing stallion book, and it WOULD be better if it can stay consistent.
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Joy
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Actually, I was referring to the updates as well. Yes, it would look better, and no, for me it wouldn't be an issue. As I said, better to have an up to date book with different stock than no book at all.
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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I drew the distinction because there is no issue of the SB update which is being worked on being produced, only the issue of frequent updates.
I emailed the office and mentioned this thread. This is Charee's response:
As for the Stallion Directory. We still have it on our office computer. I have been printing it out for booths and upon request for individuals. I put one in the mail to you today. Since the stallions are all on our website, we have very few requests for printed directories. We basically told Kumi that if she can get the funding and the cooperation of the stallion owners, she can publish a directory in any style she wishes. I would like to see a comprehensive guide to the ATA like the AHS and ISR publish. The AHS directory includes a fee schedule, photos of all approved stallions, pedigrees of all approved stallions, inspection guidelines, mare performance test information, 100-day test information and everything else a member should know about the AHS all in one jumbo handbook. Most of the other Federation members publish this type of handbook instead of a magazine. It is very difficult to find the funding to do both. I am hoping that Kumi will have success in getting stallion owners to fund this endeavor with advertisements. The more stallion owners participating, the lower the ad rates could be. All we need to do is cover the layout and printing costs. The biggest problem with printing one directory per year is that the stallion owners and contact information change almost as soon as the directory gets mailed. The way I do it now, it stays much more current. It doesn't look as nice as the ones on glossy paper but the information stays more current.
Another viewpoint, and indication that maybe Kumi is already actively pursuing this?
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