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Topic: Underutilized stallions (Read 10990 times)
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Joy
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I love Trakehners!
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I've heard many times that there are some wonderful ATA stallions that are terribly underutilized (and unappreciated). I wondered if someone could comment on some of these stallions--which ones are they, what are their strengths, and why do you think they're not being used?
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DK
FEI
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Kammerland Trakehners
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I can think of several off the top of my head, but I'll just list one and let others jump in with the rest. I think that Puszta's Diamant has been greatly underutilized. He consistently improves on the mares that he is bred to and produces fantastic temperaments. I've had the pleasure of working and boarding at the farm he stands at and I was constantly impressed with both his children and him. I'm lucky enough to have one of his daughters and she is truly exceptional.
He hasn't been campaigned or shown regularily, and his owner rarely advertises him. When she does it is only on a local level. She let him go inactive last year because she wasn't breeding him very often, and it's a darn shame. 
Does someone want to jump in and tell why Donnerkeil has been underutilized. . . ?
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EclypseSporthorses
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Go The Distance
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Horizon is a favorite of mine. To me he is the perfect Trakehner type, and he has an excellent pedigree. His sire Mahon is by Mahagoni, his dam Harma is owned by Erhard Schulte and is still producing! Harma is full sister to Hohenstein's dam.
He had an injury once, and I believe this may have effected is showing career. I'm not certain he is underutilized, I just think that in years to come, people will see more clearly what an awesome horse he is and wish they would have bred to him even more. He is awesome and his daughter, Polar's Pearl is the highest scoring mare at in Inspection, in North America. Horizon is sweet and magnificent all in the same moment. All of his offspring are awesome movers and have a noble bearing, I know the mare we have by him has a trot that makes people catch their breath, a loving and sweet personality that gives her many friends, she is super to ride and simply has a bearing about her that gets her noticed.
It is too bad that HORIZON is no longer breeding...
we are honored to own one of his daughter's.
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« Last Edit: January 21, 2004, 10:17:06 AM by Christina »
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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Karim
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I can name at least three:
1) Enrico Caruso (Mahagoni-Amagun), one of THE BEST STALLIONS that we have in our continent, a proven producer of sport horses, and very much underutilized here in America. Correct me if I am wrong Debra, but I think the most mares he ever covered in one year here in the States was less than 40!!! He did leave a legacy behind in Germany through his sons (Kostolany (and his descendents), Trocadero (now in the UK @ Bluewood Stud), Heinrich der Löwe (once at Klosterhof Medingen), Klabautermann (now in the U.S.), Klavigo (The Nederlands), and these are/were all superb stallions) & daughters like the Langels' late Schwalbenlust & her full sister Schamar, Klaviga (out of the Elite Kleopatra II by Ibikus) & Erhard Schulte's Toscana among many others.
You can see his homepage at:
http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/enrico.html
(The mare at the bottom of the page touching his nose is my mare Coalece (Inspekteur-Ginster-Habicht)
2) The second Stallion taken for granted here in the U.S. is Hilda Gurney's Grand Prix Dressage Stallion Leonidas (Condus-Siegbert) who has been consistently siring performance horses (just check the futurity winners of the past two or three years & of 2004 & that of his own!)
3) Do not ignore E.H. Herzzauber (Marduc-Radom)!
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2004, 11:57:12 PM by Karim »
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meadowview
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Thanks for mentioning E.H. Herzzauber, Karim. We have limited his book in the past to 15 outside mares per year, as we both work full time,stand 2 other stallions, and have been showing "Herz" until this year. We will be opening his book now as the showing will fall on Zeus and the new guy, Feingeist, in years to come, and we will be winding down our own careers. So, I hope that people will breed to him, as his offspring have been extremely successful. I just love working with Herz babies, as they so want to please. By the way, we are able to ship to the United States, and although there are sometimes "hitches" with Fedex, I think that happens when shipping is done within the same country as well.
I will add to your list as well. I think that Donaufurst and Schwalbenherbst are great stallions who are under utilized. Schwalbenherbst may be retired, I am not sure. Donaufurst has some great performing offspring in all disciplines, and he influences temperament in a very positive way.
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Cate
Preliminary
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Schwalbenherbst is retired, as I was trying to see if I could get hold of semen this year. I think Pikoer was very underutilized, with only a handful of registered mares to his credit, his bloodlines were very nice... he died last year. I would agree with Enrico Caruso 
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fuzzy
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Ahh, Donnerkeil. It's very simple. Incorrect beginning to his training, and a lack of interest in putting together a decent competition and advertizing plan. This is a horse who could have gone FEI. He is as kind and sweet as any horse I've known. How many 17.1 hand stallions do you know who could be ridden bareback by kids? His offspring are reliably sweet, smart, and athletic. Some are going into dressage, but one filly was sold as a jumper and was certain GP material. He reliably throws excellent legs and feet. And if you have a short mare, but want a taller baby THIS IS YOUR GUY! Unless the mare is huge, his babies almost always finish significantly taller than their mothers. My Donnerkeil gelding (who BTW, has done very respectably in USDFBC competition with good scores and great comments from Lilo Fore and Gen. Burton)could finish a full two hands taller than his Arab mother. At least a couple of his offspring have been trained entirely by juniors. I rode my gelding the first time the other day. I didn't have a ground person, but he went like he had been ridden several times already. You just can't beat that. I plan to use Donnerkeil again to hopefully get a filly to keep.
And for those who might be interested in getting in on this horse - he does ship, so there's no lack of availability.
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Sally Ann
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The ATA publishes a listing of stallions who breed at least 10 mares, or is it 15? Maybe someone can recreate this list here and you can then identify which stallions are not being used much.
I think many of the ATA stallion owners are dedicated to preservation of the Trakehner gene pool so only a few get their stallions in another registry, which would increase his bookings. Leonidas and Kovington are Oldenburg NA, too, not sure if there are others.
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EclypseSporthorses
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Go The Distance
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Sally,
This list we have was printed from the ATA site Sept 2002- this is what was printed at the top of the list:
The following data represents registrations thru 5-17-2002
Total = All registered offspringTHIS LIST WAS FROM 2002 Includes all Registered Offspring UPTO 2002.
There were three pages of stallions breeding less than 5 mares, Of these this is the break down:
7 Stallions covered 10 mares 
2 Stallions covered 9 mares 
7 Stallions covered 8 mares 
6 Stallions covered 7 mares 
5 Stallions had bred only 6 mares 
7 Stallions had bred only 5 mares 
8 Stallions had bred only 4 mares 
9 Stallions had bred only 3 mares 
8 Stallions had only bred 2 mares
17 Stallions had bred only 1 mare. 
and 50 Stallions had bred 0 mares. 
I think Sally Ann had a great idea about checking in on this list, because it shows that the horses we think are underutilized maybe, in fact are not.
Enrico Caruso= 154
Leonidas = 50
Donnerkeil =15
Donaufurst =93
Herzzauber =43
These stats were from 2002, so I imagine the numbers are alot higher now, though there were well over 50 stallions that had no mares, so I'd venture to say they are acctually the ones underutilized.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2004, 07:06:52 PM by Christina »
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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Sally Ann
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I wish there was some way for stallion owners to have access to a Mare Auction similiar to the way mare owners can bid on stallions in an auction.
Some really nice stallions need babies on the ground out of superior mares in order to promote the stallion. Just selling breedings cheaply to get babies on the ground is not necessarily the way to get the great mares.
Wow, if 50 stallions did not breed a single mare in 2002, what's that about? Maybe some stallions are retired and no longer in vogue, but 50 seems high.
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fuzzy
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The numbers are of registered offspring, correct? I know Donnerkeil hasn't got 15 OSB daughters. (He hasn't got any, to my knowledge) He might not have 15 registered daughters - pure or part bred. That's not many for a teenage stallion . . . And I'm quite certain that he's never been on the "10 or more mares bred in one season list" though there was one season about 6 or 7 years agothat I'm quite certain he bred about 12 and not all were reported to the ATA. I suspect that not all his foals were registered. Too bad. Folks go to so much trouble to locate and breed good horses whose ancestry is carefully documented and then you have folks not bothering to keep that chain of info intact.
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Sally Ann
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Actually, I think Pyatt Charley did get quite a few mares and was on the list. It was later revised.
Since I have Dutch mares in addition to my Trakehner, etc. mares, I checked the results of the Dutch stallion auction today. Two stallions did not get bids, and many of the final bids were at the entry level, $550. A few went above $1,000. One of those stallions, Isseljmer, is competing successfully in dressage at the FEI levels in California. Another was just imported by Iron Spring Farm.
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Sally Ann
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Christina,
What a clever use of the snowman smilies!!!!!! That's just cute! Thanks for going to the trouble.
Sally @
www.oakhollowstable.com
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Karim
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Christina,
These numbers for the caliber of stallions that we have, would be considered peanuts in Europe.
The word on the street is that the Res. Champ of his grading, Hibiskus (Latimer-Hohenstein-Kostolany) (and now under Ingrid Klimke) covered over 100 mares in his first year (at 450 Euros/mare). Gribaldi covers over 300 mares per year.
So 154 mares for Enrico, 50 for Leonidas & 43 for E.H. Herzauber is what they may have covered in one slow year in Germany.
This brings back the topic of Stud Fees. The aim of every Stallion Owner is for his/her stallion to cover as many good mares as possible, and if the North American market is taken into consideration & the stud fees lowered, each stallion may be covering more mares, generating more income, and having more foals on the ground. Something to think about
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« Last Edit: January 21, 2004, 09:28:56 PM by Karim »
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Sally Ann
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Whoops, Dutch auction still has 45 minutes to go.
Anyway, my point is the need to look at what breeders are willing to pay for a breeding. The Dutch approval system is one of the toughest in the world, including x-rays looking for OCD and semen evaluation. Then the stallion has to produce (x) number of foals acceptable to the jury in a given period of time or his license to breed is pulled.
I said in a thread last year that stallion owners need to be conscious of the sporthorse stallion market across registry lines. The competition is intense.
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EclypseSporthorses
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Go The Distance
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Christina, These numbers for the caliber of stallions that we have, would be considered peanuts in Europe. So 154 mares for Enrico, 50 for Leonidas & 43 for E.H. Herzauber is what they may have covered in one slow year in Germany. This brings back the topic of Stud Fees. The aim of every Stallion Owner is to cover as many mares as possible, and if they take the North American market into consideration & lower the stud fees, their stallion may be covering more mares, generate more income, and have more foals on the ground. Something to think about |
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« Last Edit: January 21, 2004, 09:35:14 PM by Christina »
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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Joy
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Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
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Christina, is there a list that tells the stallion number within the last year? (it seems to me I've seen something like that in one of the newsletters...).
I agree with Karim that a lower stud fee may briing more mares, though I doubt that a stallion owner in North America will ever recoup the investment. The stud fee may be the least of the expenses in the long run, but a high stud fee, in the short term, can put that stallion out of range for many mare owners.
I've been cruising around the internet looking at stallions, and I must say there's an awful lot of websites that just don't do their stallions justice. Photos of the stallion taking a bath or romping in a field, are great, but where are the good, clear photos of conformation and a nice trot? And what I find even more discouraging is that the stallions are just not being competed. Even those in competition are retired very early. Tradition, for example, is now standing at stud and *may* compete in dressage, but has been taken out of the competition venue. Having shown horses myself, I know how expensive it is, but trying to find a performance Trakehner here is difficult. I think presentation of the website and a great video can overcome some of that, but put the two together, and you have overlooked stallionsk, and possibly great sires. that will never fulful their potential. What a shame!
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Cate
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Where abouts is the list? Is it on the web? I am interested in some of the stallions that won't have many progeny at all?
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Joy
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I love Trakehners!
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Don't forget, too, that the numbers, because they are of registered offspring only, may not reflect the stallions' bookings. There may be outside mares (non-Trakehners) or otherwise unregistered offspring, but even so, their contribution to the Trakehner in America is negligible.
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Cate
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I can possibly find this out for NZ, or ask someone who would know.... but the Trak registry here will often register less than 10 foals a year I would think that we have less than 250 Traks registered total from when we started breeding in 1984. Total of 4 Breeding stallions have stood.
But we have a problem at the moment in that we only have 1 live stallion, and he won't ship semen [he can but the owner doesn't like to]. So we are stuck with Frozen semen, and the cost of buying it and getting it here is somewhat prohibitive.
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