 Poll
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| Question: |
Vote for one and I will submit a proposal to the ATA.
| Anglo-Trake Design 1 |
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   0 (0%) |
| Anglo-Trake Design 2 |
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3 (50%) |
| Anglo-Trake Design 3 |
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1 (16.7%) |
| Anglo-Trake Design 4 |
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0 (0%) |
| Anglo-Trake Design 5 |
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2 (33.3%) |
| Anglo-Trake Design 6 |
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0 (0%) |
| Keep the current Brand |
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0 (0%) |
| None of the above: submit additional designs. |
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0 (0%) |
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| Total Votes: 6 |
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Author
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Topic: Anglo-Trake Brand Change (Read 7239 times)
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shadytrake
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Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Okay all, I hate the current AT brand. I have an Anglo-Trake who I want to get branded for security reasons AND bragging, but the current AT brand is so different from the purebred brand that no-one would recognize it. I propose that the AT brand should have all or part of the antlers in it. What do you think? I have made up some rough designs. Vote if you like. I would like to submit a proposal to the ATA to have this brand changed. I hope that I can post the pics.
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 1
[attachment deleted by admin]
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 2
[attachment deleted by admin]
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 3
[attachment deleted by admin]
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 4
[attachment deleted by admin]
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 5
[attachment deleted by admin]
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 6
[attachment deleted by admin]
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susan
Guest
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I really like design 5, as it is most similar to the purebred brand. Thanks for your work on this.
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Jennifer
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Posts: 323
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During the mid-1980's I attended an annual meeting where the anglo-Trakehner brand was brought up. This was when the US brand was first approved and used. There was a special cerimony when the brand was used for the first time. Also, in attendance at that meeting was the head of the Trakehenr Verband at that time (I can't think of his name at this time, but I recall that he died tragically at a young age) and he said he thought there would be no problem using a modified single antler brand for an anglo-Trakehenr. Someone brought it up at the meeting because she didn't like the existing anglo-Trakehener brand. I wonder what came of that? I think modified designs for the brand have to be approved by the Verband since it owns that design. It did approve the US design.
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Blaufelden
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Posts: 34
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I voted for the #2 brand. I agree that it would be very nice to have the antlers incorporated somehow. I've only used the current Anglo brand on one of my youngsters & I don't think I would again. It's BIG and looks more like a brand someone would put on a calf's rump ...... for something like "All Terrain" Ranch! Beautiful design work, I might add!
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 7 (not in the poll, but let me know if you like this one)
By the way, thanks for your kind comments. Maybe we can get the Verband to relax the rule and approve a new design. Does anyone know how they brand Anglo-Trakes over there? Do they recognize them at all?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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« Last Edit: May 20, 2003, 09:33:46 PM by shadytrake »
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Design 8 (not in the poll either, but let me know) 
[attachment deleted by admin]
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TwinGates
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Performance Matters!
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Really good design work! My vote goes to #5, followed by 7.
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
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Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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I like number 5 - closest to ATA purebred brand. I like number 2 also, but it doesn't tie to the American brand like number 5... great work on these - thanks for spending the time and energy to do it! Ps - I do like the others as they are close to the original single antler brand of Trakehnen - very nice, but keeping it closer to the ATA current brand seems wise. Thanks again...
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Maren
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Posts: 691
The Bouncer
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There is no Anglo Trakehner brand in Germany!!!
And I never quite understood why there is one in the US. The TB is an accepted and approved bloodline in Trakehner breeding and thus is not handled differently than the so called "pure bred". Obviously, with the number of TB mares in the US, the ATA tries to prevent to have too much TB in the program, but how can you have "too much" of what is considered "Trakehner" over here?
The German Verband only gives out the double mosse antler and a version of a half mosse antler with a crown for those horses out of stud book mares that are not in the MAIN stud book. I own a mare like that, her dam was too small to be a main stud book mare, thus her offspring were branded "half", but do have full pink papers and are considered full Trakehners with all rights when it comes to breeding.
How is the offspring of fully registered and approved TB mares branded, when sired by a Trakehner stallion in the US? Anglo Trak?? That just doesn't make any sense to me. They ARE TRAKEHNERS. Arogno, Consul, Mahagoni, Windfall, etc. are full and pure bred Trakehner stallions and are branded as such: with the regular double mosse antler.
I think the real improvement would be to skip the AT brand completely for all TB offspring out of approved mares (or stallions) and follow the German version of branding.
Just my two cents.
Melissa: GREAT JOB!!!
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
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Trakehner Cowgirl
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Good point, Maren. Is this the case? I was under the impression Anglo Traks were those bred by Trak stallions, or out of Trak mares, crossed with non-trak partners, excluding approved TB or Arab mares/stallions. Anyone? I think offspring of approved TB or Arab horses are considered full breeds here..
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Karim
Guest
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I second that Maren!
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Jennifer
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Actually, the "AT" brand is for part Trakehners and can be used on any horse that is registered with the ATA but is not eligible for the US Trakehner brand with the antlers and "frown line". In order to be eligible for the antler brand, the resulting foal has to produced from approved parents, which would include inspected and approved TBs and arabs. This would include horses resulting from crosses of approved Trakehner stallions/mares with TBs and arabs that have not been approved for breeding as well as crosses with horses that are from other breeds or of unkonwn ancestry and non-approved Trakehners.
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Jennifer
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Oops! Let me clarify my last sentence in the previous post! Here's what I wrote:
"This would include horses resulting from crosses of approved Trakehner stallions/mares with TBs and arabs that have not been approved for breeding as well as crosses with horses that are from other breeds or of unknown ancestry and non-approved Trakehners."
I meant to say, "The part Trakehner brand could be used on horses that would include...
The antler brand can be used on foals that result from crosses of approved breeding stock only. Approved stock includes approved Trak stallions and mares, of course. But, it also includes inspected and approved TBs, arabs, anglo-Traks, anglo-arabs, and arab-traks.
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sherry
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Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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Jennifer has it exactly correct: ........any horse..., REGISTERED in the Official Registry Book or the Official Appendix Book of the Association and not eligible for the full Trakehner brand my be branded on the left hindquarter with the Association's Part-Trakehner brand as the recognized sign of a horse registered with the Association. Right now I am trying to wrack my brain to figure out what horse registered in the Official Registry Book would not be eligible for the purebred brand. The only thing I can think of is part-bred mares inspected and listed in the PSB--but oops--that isn't listed as an option in the corporate regulations.
See what I mean about the apparent conflict?
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shadytrake
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Okay, didn't mean to start a war here. I have a GELDING by an APPROVED stallion out of a Jockey Club Registered TB mare, BUT NOT ATA inspected or approved for OSB due to her advanced age of 24. Therefore, he is an Anglo-Trakehner.
Now, my 2 cents. I understand from private e-mails that this issue has come up many times to no avail. I can go back to the drawing board and design the brand with a different style of antler. Now, is this going to damage our relationship with the Verband? I don't know. However, I do believe that in an effort to promote the breed, we can find a way to work this out. We all have the common goal, to promote the Trakehner breed.
The issue is NOT about TB's and Arabians being added to the book. The issue is about ORB (Official Registry Book) and OAB (Official Appendix Book) horses who are NOT eligible for the purebred brand, BUT who are PROUD to advertise the Trakehner refinement in their blood.
I also feel that with the vastness of the US, that this is a theft deterrent issue as well. Personally, my gelding has very few identifying markers and I would like him to be branded. I know that I can micro-chip him, but that is not visible.
I understand that the Verband and the ATA are concerned with non-approved horses breeding under the pretense of being Trakehners, but that is already happening. Unapproved stallions with Trakehner blood are covering mares in the US all the time. That is why we have people on the ATA registration committee. They and the board make sure that papers are not issued to horses with questionable or unapproved parentage.
I think that out of respect for the Verband that this issue must be handled diplomatically, however, we must understand that our market is different and sometimes exceptions should be made.
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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I don't think a war has been started here, unless there are private communications not posted on the board.
But the topic name is misleading, because it specifically says "Anglo-Trake". As noted by other posters, the AT brand is for partbred Trakehners (like even a half-Saddlebred or something like that), NOT specifically for Anglo-Trakehners.
Other than dissatisfaction with the range-like design of the brand, the most grousing I have heard about the partbred brand is that Anglo-Trakehners and Arab-Trakehners are entitled only to that brand. Since Arab and TB (selectively) are integral to the Trakehner breed and gene pool, the gripe I have heard is that the Anglo and Arab-Traks should get something different than a brand that might be given to a half quarter horse or whatever. Golly, I think reading section D of the regs on OAB that even a mule could get the AT brand, as long as one of its parents was Trakehner.
While the distinction makes some sense, why should we have multiple brands for part breds? It seems hardly anyone uses the partbred brand there is. And how many people regularly even use the purebred brand in the US?
Stuff to think about, for sure.
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