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Topic: Everyone Please Read (Read 3546 times)
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Boss Mare
Moderator
FEI
 Offline
Posts: 126
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By way of a reminder, or information for anyone who happens through here and does not know,
PLEASE NOTE: This site has no official connection to the American Trakehner Association or any other registering body; it has been developed and is utilized by friends of the Trakehner who may happen to be members of the ATA or other organizations. Please do not direct comments to the ATA Office.
Recent posts have prompted a dialogue of sorts between myself and the ATA Office and a certain officer of the ATA. Apparently various people have taken the view that these forums are in some manner controlled by the ATA Office. Please realize that if you are unable to log in to the forum for some technical reason, the ATA Office staff are not the people to approach.
Personally, I think that the people who post on here, collectively, are true friends of the Trakehner and are interested in the development of our breed, the improvement of our registering associations for the benefit of their members and of the breed, and the furtherance of our Trakehners in all of the performance disciplines.
If we have questions about an ATA rule, ask the ATA Office. If we have an idea of how to fix something or make a rule better, by all means lets discuss it and do something productive to effect change.
This forum is NOT an ATA undertaking, but if officers of the ATA desire to provide information to improve our discussions, I say that is outstanding. In fact, if such a person would like their own board on these forums specifically to answer questions about rules, policy, etc, they are welcome to it, and will please email me to discuss it further.
I want to personally thank Sherry Tourino, a current board member, for offering her insights and also making efforts to present ideas discussed here to people who can effect change. I would like to thank other officers for adding factual information regarding certain regulations.
I see most of the posts of late regard performance accomplishments, foal announcements, and the like. That is excellent, positive light-hearted conversation that allows people to develop and maintain friendships and communications over great distances. I also think it is excellent when there is substantive discussion about how to perhaps make things better. The purpose of such discussion IS positive by nature, seeking improvement for the benefit of the membership.
I urge everyone to keep their emotions out of any discussion of legitimate issues. Name-calling is totally nonproductive. Everyone, please realize that the forums are open to viewing by the public and think before making statements that may be attributed to your farm, your business interests, a registering association which you represent as an officer, or Trakehner folk as a group.
Refusing to participate in discussions because someone makes a bothersome post here or there does not help anyone. As has been said many times, it takes volunteers and meaningful communications to accomplish any goals, and adopting the attitude of taking one's toys and going home is counterproductive.
I am disappointed to hear that there are people who will not post here because of something said or read on the forums. I do not know who these people are as no one has contacted me about it except the person who made this statement to me. It is sad to me that this is the case. But I have almost reached that inevitable conclusion that you can't make everyone happy.
So, parting shot, play nicely. We are all in this Trakehner game together.
- I
Oh, one more thing, and it involves input from you guys: How do we feel about making the forums accessible for reading only by registered members? How many of our members will we lose by requiring you to be logged in to read or post (I know Suzette has issues here, anyone else? Perhaps we can help Suzette to get around her technical issues?)?
Please respond here, by email, or by sending a private message to me on the forums, as you prefer.
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Boss Mare
Moderator
FEI
Offline
Posts: 126
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Thanks for the chance to clarify, Renee:
People who are not logged in or registered can "lurk" and view the forums. They can also post as guests. Or they may decline to post and just read and stew over things.
I have been informed that people do their lurking and then, withour posting as a guest or otherwise, indicate their disapproval of subjects discussed or discussions via other avenues.
However, closing the door would prevent people who have technical problems from reading OR posting...
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sherry
ata
FEI
Offline
Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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I, too, have seen that--people who pour on criticism without the cajones to tell us--too bad--but cowards are nothing new
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Eileen
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 513
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Please help me with this.
I fail to see the benefit in allowing only registered meembers to view &/or post on the forum. Unless there are specific issues I haven't seen, I feel the forum is better off as open as it can possibly be for the following reasons:
1. New people will be excluded as they may (as I did) read and watch for a while before joining.
2. I don't think anyone here is saying anything that they wouldn't say in a meeting. We shouldn't say anything that can't be said publicly. There are private emails for that.
3. Because of time constraints in a meeting, issues may be discussed in more depth here. Those who don't have the courage to speak up in a meeting may eventually speak here. Sometimes, they may have ideas no one else had considered.
(Still waters do sometimes truly run deep -- and sometimes they don't).
4. Closing the forum can give the impression of eliticism or of talking about someone behind their backs, secrecy, all that sort of thing.
5. Discussing issues openly here may lead to other things such as (a) presenting an idea to a board member or (b) deciding that after all things are better as they are and not taking up precious time in the annual meetings to learn the reason for a specific decision. Or after seeing issues here, someone may feel strongly enough to volunteer for something.
6. If someone truly wants to write something here without being identified, they may register under another name.
7. I feel that most of the misunderstandings and hurt feelings that have occurred here are for 2 reasons.
A. We are all operating from different bases so to speak. We all have differing levels of knowledge in different arenas and when we talk about something, the human tendency is to assume we are all at the same level. A level of knowledge that you have and use so frequently as to be second nature to you may be totally foreign to someone else. I see this all the time in all types of relationships.
B. When using a printed form, we can't see the other person's facial expressions, body language, etc. So misconceptions of how the person intended what they are saying are even more frequent than they are in person. And God knows it's difficult enough to interpret what someone is saying when we can see them. It is so easy to answer in the midst of our own emotion without stopping to see how a printed word will be interpreted by someone you may not know at all. I know I've experienced that myself to my dismay on a couple of topics and have reponded with less understanding than I could have or should have.
I think we all will get better at this in time. We just have to remember that no one here wants to hurt or malign anyone else. The hurt feelings will still happen occasionally whether the forum is open or closed. When others see that we can handle dissension without falling apart or accusing each other, they may feel this is an organization worth joining and actively participating in. Few people want to join an organization where they will not be heard. Let this forum and the ATA be leaders.
You can now bring in the swells of music for my soapbox.
Thanks for everyone's patience,
Take care,
Eileen
8. Actively encouraging new people to join in whether they wish to identify themselves or not may give those who are shy the opportunity to express themselves and later maybe they will identify themselves. We always need new blood and new ideas lest we become too staid and repressed. This would eventually be found in our views in the ATA and in the breeding, promoting, etc. of our beloved Trakehner.
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Suzette B
Guest
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Very well said, Eileen.
Sometimes things can be taken with offense - we ALL do that from time to time - and it RARELY is actually the intent of the poster. The vast majority of the offense is mis-read by the reader. But we all fall prey to this problem. There isn't much we can do to keep that from occurring - other than to apologize afterward, which we all seem to do quite often. I would hate for people to become fearful of speaking out because it is possible that someone may misconstrue an unintended comment.
But, Did I miss something here? I haven't seen any anonymous people saying anything of issue. Everyone (including myself - who seems to be the only "problem child") seems to identify themselves and own up to their opinions. I really don't see that this is a problem. Did I miss it?
I think this forum is very healthy for the organization. For many years, members have stood behind closed doors and groused at all the "others". There was always the impression of "secrecy" and "the old boys network" that ran everything. Having everything out in the open can go a long way towards changing this impression. I think it is wonderful that we can finally talk about what we can do to improve things for the breed and the membership as a whole. This country is so very large, that we will never meet most of the membership. It isn't like in Germany where everybody can get together over drinks and hash out thier problems. This forum is as close as we can get to do this.
I guess the problem is how do we do this without somebody reading things the wrong way? I have no answer to that.
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Boss Mare
Moderator
FEI
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Posts: 126
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The possibility of restricting access to read was something I raised to the ATA Office, in a phone call investigating statements in a previous post by Shawnda Nadeau, specifically:
I'm not sure if many of you realize that the Trakehner discussion forums that we have here and elsewhere have the reputation of being the 2nd most contentious, right behind the ISR/Oldenburg breed registry. We have unintentionally scared off prospective breeders, clients and friends of the Trakehner Horse by some of our "disscussions" (sic). Have many of you not noticed that some of our more knowledgeable and senior ATA members no longer post or reply on here ?
Assuming for the sake of argument that these statements are accurate, my fleeting thought was that if open readership was "scaring off" new people, it might be avoided by restricting readership. But when I think about this harder, in addition to the obvious problem of locking out people who want to participate, closing our door might have the very effect that Eileen warned of. I do think there are people new to Trakehners who happen through here and are NOT "scared off" but rather welcomed.
I have to confess, I do not know which people we may have "scared off." Perhaps I should, but no one has said anything to me. And frankly, I find it hard to believe that ANYONE would find the occasional differences of opinion here to be anything remotely comparable to the "Oldenburg Wars." 
I see those of us that have taken the time to respond are opposed to closing the door and I think at this time that a change is unwarranted.
Thanks. If there is more to say, please keep talking! Dialogue is good 
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« Last Edit: April 25, 2003, 10:35:55 PM by Boss Mare »
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Eileen
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 513
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Suzette, In answer to your question about preventing hurt feelings and contentions, maybe we should consider some rules of dialogue similar to those used in business management. Although they would not prevent all mishaps, perhaps we could keep them to a minimum.
If Boss Mare and any others who work to maintain this board agree, maybe they could be posted on the reply page, much like the teardrops, snowmen, etc. That way, even though we would get used to seeing them all the time, maybe just the sight of them would help to cool us down before we write something we shouldn't. Also, for new people, it may give them accepted guidelines to stay within so they don't start something.
Maybe the rules of dialogue could include things such as:
1. No calling of names, maligning of horses, etc.
2. All ideas are up for discussion. Leave the emotions out of it, and be prepared to discuss and accept pros and cons. If you don't take ownership of an idea, especially at the beginning, you are less likely to feel personally attacked if someone disagrees. Most of the time, we are brainstorming and looking for suggestions. If someone has incorrect information, put forth the correct info matter-of-factly and either state your source or be prepared to do so.
3. When we disagree, keep our disagreements directed strictly at the ideas. Do not let our differing views extend to the individual(s) expressing opposing views.
Also, regarding those who lurk and then stew or criticize to others, we can't prevent that be they members or not. If they do see all sides being presented fairly and without hostility, maybe they will look elsewhere for something to grumble about, or again maybe they will join us on occasion. We can't control the actions of others, only our responses to them.
Ingrid, I wish to thank you for all your work in keeping this forum up and running. I can't imagine the gigantic efforts involved. You must be a very generous person. It also takes courage to moderate discussions when you have no prior knowledge of what may come up. I'm certain you must have other things over which you could be pulling out your hair. Again, my thanks for all your efforts and time.
Take care,
Eileen
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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Well, I havn't been scared off, Ingrid  I've noticed a couple people havn't been on in a while, but don't we all get busy? God, I hope my tirade some weeks ago didn't disgust anyone too badly  I've been sleeping in the barn for the last 11 days so I've been silent, as I'm sure others are during this foaling season.
I'm glad the forum will not be closed to members only. It's hard enough to break into this crowd without a "No Trespassing" sign signaling "Members Only." But I'm glad the idea was proposed and you had such a thoughtful response from the handful of folks, especially Eileen - very good points I hadn't thought of.
Thank you, Ingrid, for this forum. If it were not for this site, my knowledge of Trakehners and breeding would be a small fraction of what it is (in my short, humble career thus far). I truly appreciate all of your hard work and energy.
Now, PLEASE, everyone, say a prayer that this kid comes tonight! I can't stand it anymore!!!! Our first foal - a real blessing he/she's come this far. We are proud and thrilled to be a part of the Trakehner community. We are fortunate to be able to voice our opinions, censored or not, here at Ingrid's Place. We, Jim and I, are blessed to know the Trakehner.
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Boss Mare
Moderator
FEI
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Posts: 126
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Thanks for saying nice things, everyone
A feature I am not sure everyone knows about is that each poster can modify their own posts. When you view your own entry after posting, you will see a button for "modify" in the color block of your post. In the event you find you have left tact by the wayside, by all means, go ahead and revise your statement!
BTW, those aren't teardrops, they are raindrops! You know, April Showers? 
And Lara, let us know when the Tiny Danz-er arrives!
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« Last Edit: April 26, 2003, 07:48:42 AM by Boss Mare »
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sherry
ata
FEI
Offline
Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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Boss-gosh I didn't know that about the modify thing--we learn something new everyday. As far as closing the door-I thought Eileen put it very well--and as far as more "rules"--good grief, can't we just expect people to act like civilized adults--and to refrain from anything that they wouldn't say in a public meeting. I don't know what specifics Shawnda may have--I've certainly not seen nor felt the rancor that some have been accused of. And heaven knows, I certainly have occasionally opened my mouth when keeping it shut would certainly have been a better opinion. I think that happens to most of us at one time or another.
You're doing great work--and thank you for that!
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Eileen
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 513
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Ingrid,
Sorry about the teardrops/raindrops. I think I knew that once but I forgot. Sorry.  Sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake, other times I have the landing gear up and locked and have to crash and burn before I catch on. Anyway, they're a good idea to keep a little humor in our posts.
Thanks again,
Take care,
Eileen
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Amanya
ata
Preliminary
Offline
Posts: 96
Life is Choices
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Wow. I've not been on line for nearly two months (in process of moving me, family and horses to new ranch half a state away...) and this is the first thread I get to!!
Just to add my thoughts....I try to ALWAYS reply positively on a post. It IS public. I also understand that the written word lacks the inflection of voice to voice and the body language of face to face. Thus, I do my best to read things in a positive way.
If I am confused or upset, or disagree on a really personal basis, I tend to privately email, or even phone an individual, which does two things: keeps me from looking totally stupid and keeps me from doing any "damage" to someone's image. In short, I error on the cautious side, tho I'm not adverse to a healthy debate on a good issue.
But when the discussion is more general, e.g. bloodline, what's happening in Europe, etc and less pointed to a specific horse/stallion or such, I definitely toss in my opinion, based on my (limited, but no less-valid) experiences.
Many posters have great knowledge to share with us, and I hope that readers of this forum do indeed post -- it shouldn't be limited to a few experts, but for everyone.
Thank you Boss Mare for all your good work.  I have learned so very much from this forum AND I have gained many new friends whom I value very much as I continue to experience the Wonderful World of Trakheners.
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? Thanks again.
