|
Pages: 1 2 »
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Ursula M. Liakos on Breeding Trakehners (Read 5733 times)
|
Karim
Guest
|
Deleted by Poster
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:26:15 AM by Karim »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beckie
ata
Gold Medallist
 Offline
Posts: 269
I LOVE Trakehners!
|
I think that this is very interesting and true. I know that few of us just "breed to breed." However, as I look to breed for sale horses versus my own use, I definitely am spending a LOT of time thinking about what makes a horse successful in the amature market. I am convinced that most "professionals" rarely consider an American bred.....but the market for good horses with good gaits, good performance abilities and good temperaments is HUGE here in the US. So my goals are to try and breed a horse a "professional" would want and an amature can ride.....on the trail, over fences, at dressage, in a quadrille........ A horse that will take the rider as far as they want to go in their chosen discipline. Wish me luck!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Karim
Guest
|
Deleted by Poster
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:26:38 AM by Karim »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
Did you stop to think that maybe :oit could be that they simply have more Trakehners there? And therefore a larger, more diverse selection, so why travel to the next town to shop? I'm sure if they were shopping for POA's or Quarter Horses, Morgans, they'd look here 
Just a thought! Don't take me too seriously, I just think it is great to shot for perfection, just don't shot yourself in the foot over thinking there must be something wrong over here, or with our horses! I mean hey, you'll probably be able to find more seashells by the seashore, know what I mean?  Germany is where the party got started!!! So just don't be so quick to think there is something wrong, just because they aren't importing our horses / it would be a little bit like Florida importing seashells from Wisconsin! Nothing wrong with WI, it's just more likely to find the shells near the source!! 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
Blaufelden
ata
Novice
Offline
Posts: 34
|
Frankly, I think we North American Trakehner breeders are walking around with a chip on our shoulders! We breed for the same qualities that our German counterparts do; not to mention that so many of the stallions we use have been imported & hopefully, bred to quality mares. I think the bottom line concerning the success of our foals, is who ends up with them. Every breeder probably can remember a horse that they've sold; one who was of extreme quality, but for one reason or another, never really "made it." This, I can say is the EXTREME frustation for a breeder! At times it's hard to keep your sanity - there's always that equation that you never can contol. But we chug on, do the best we can and try harder to find just the right person for our horses, which really is the key to a successful partnership.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Karim
Guest
|
Deleted by Poster
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:26:58 AM by Karim »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Beckie
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 269
I LOVE Trakehners!
|
I will tell you what I think is primarily wrong and I will use Peron as an example. Let's face it this wonderful performance horse was standing, unused in someone's back yard in GA until the right rider, sponsor (who happened to be the owner) and trainer came along. I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the horses. But let's face it, horsemanship is just not a class they teach at school anymore. I am convinced that there is many a champion being ridden first level by a grandmother who could just as easily carry an olympian. Maybe not hundreds, but enough.
However, I think that the fact that so many people enjoy horses of every discipline in the US is GREAT. From the surgen who did my outpatient procedure last week who described riding his cutting horses as "like riding a cat" and told my fiance that the only thing that would have made him happier about the outcome was "another horse!" to anyone out there getting up at dawn every day to enjoy the partnership they have with "ole Nellie". My blessing to everyone and every horse!!!
Yes, I want to breed a champion someday, but what I really want is healthy, happy horses in safe, happy, relationships with their kind and generous owners who trust and value every moment they spend with their animal. And if they compete at FEI......FABULOUS!!!! OK, so I am idealist.
But basically, as we (Americans) get better at the classical disciplines we will also get better at breeding and more confident (and better at) picking a home bred to compete on.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
I mean that one of our problems is that as a collective we are lacking in promoting, organizing & getting involved in the sport events that we are breeding our horses for. Now what can we do to change that?
Who should our target market be? I think we need to have a critical look at we are doing without getting defensive (in order to advance). My goal like most of you is to put the Trakehner back on the map, so that every kid or grownup who dreams of owning a horse, dreams of owning a Beautiful Trakehner. What do you think?
Karim,
I have mentioned a few different times on the forum that we need to gear towards the youth, only one person responded to that! I can tell you from the youth that I give lessons to that they are during this time in life 'picking' the breed (s) they will be a fan of , and we (Trakehner enthusiasts) are missing the boat with them!!! I am doing my best in my small corner to educate those I meet...and am using my friendly Trakehners to show people how gentle, loving, athletic, beautiful, ect... the Trakehner is.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
suzette b
Guest
|
I agree that the biggest problem is to get the top horses into the hands of the top riders. In this country that seems to be the impossible mission.
In Europe, the organizations have funding to purchase these horses and give them to the big trainers. It just doesn't happen that way here. First we don't have a large money pot to dip into. We also don't have very many "wealthy" breeders in the organization right now who are willing to foot the bill for extensive training and competition careers for the rising stars.
We have a few "die-hard" serious breeders who support their young stock, like Hilda and Jean/Erin, along with a few "newer" ones who support young stallions on the way up (like Sherry, and the owner of the new stallion, Kovington -sorry I don't know that person yet).
Having been through this myself, I know first-hand just how expensive it is to support the career for a talented stallion from the beginning to the Upper Levels. It is an enormous task, and while it is indeed a rewarding one, it is still not something to be taken on lightly.
In a nutshell, the reason that we do not have a bunch of top Trakehner horses out there in competition has nothing to do with the quality of our horses. It is all about money. If we had a breeder with the backing of an Iron Springs Farm, or Hilltop Farm behind us, we would be seeing a LOT of Traks out there doing the best they can do.
So, what we really need to do is find out how to entice and excite the wealthy backers to our breed!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Beckie
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 269
I LOVE Trakehners!
|
Suzette: I could not agree more.....but see the discussion on issues with the ATA to review what discourages people from the breed. Most of us LOVE THE HORSE....Hate the Politics!! Luckily, from the great conversations we are having here, things are slowly improving. New blood in the ATA is helping tremendously to bring about new ideas and more opportunities for participation. After being a member for 10 years, it is encouraging to see things moving in a possitive direction.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Blaufelden
ata
Novice
Offline
Posts: 34
|
Suzette, You should know that you are one of our heroines. To breed, train & show Kreshendo to the very upper levels ... well, I can't imagine much else that should bring you accolades of vast proportions for your hard work & devotion! I know what it takes to get a horse properly to PSG. Most don't make it that far. The welfare of my foals always comes first, but it's frustrating to know that a few youngsters who really have the ability, will never be asked to show it. It's a-kin to someone having a Secretariat (bless his soul) and then using him for a trail horse! Sigh. Too many fine horses; not enough time .... or money, like you said!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Maren
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 681
The Bouncer
|
The owner of Kovington is Kumi Smedley from Austin, TX, a wonderful Trakehner friend, willing to put performance first! We're close friends, and I think she is going the right way!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
suzette b
Guest
|
Thanks Janet, for the words of encouragement! Heroine? Ha! I have received FAR more from this whole experience than I have invested, and it has been worth every bit of it. I wouldn't give back any of it! But, at the same time, I wish I could win the Lottery so that I could do a lot more!
Maren - I haven't met Kumi yet, and am looking forward to doing so, as people speak highly of her and her horse. I'll have to pop her an email to welcome her into the fold....
Beckie- Politics are where ever there are people. Every organization that I have ever been involved in (either horse related, school-related, or business-related) has had it's share of political maneuvering going on. It is unavoidable. The idea is to try to keep everything out in the open, keep it as "clean" as possible, and keep everybody talking to each other. I do not feel that the ATA has any more "politics" than any other breed organization. Actually, now that the ATA/NATA Unification is past us, this group is actually one of the "quietest" ones out there! (Anybody ever visited the Oldenberg vs. Oldenberg crowd?)
There will always be hurt feelings, and people feeling slighted for efforts that they feel have gone un-noticed. Whoever said earlier, "Get over it", was right-on. People DO notice who is doing all the extra efforts. It may not get "officially" noticed, but everybody knows who does good things for the breed, even if the accolades don't actually get passed back to the individuals.
But, we are all in this thing together. It is all whatever we make of it. We are each a part of the problem, and as big a part of the solution. I am very pleased that we have this forum for open discussion, and am looking forward to seeing the proposal to the board (about the mare inspections) being researched, written and submitted. Has someone taken on the responsibility to start this up?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Maren
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 681
The Bouncer
|
Lara (Meyer) is working on a proposal and I know she's not far from board member Sherry Tourino, as far as I heard, they plan to sit down together and do some thinking.
BTW, Sherry, a double hurray from me to you for the safe arrival of Fandango! Good luck wtih him!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
Offline
Posts: 994
Go The Distance
|
. It's a-kin to someone having a Secretariat (bless his soul) and then using him for a trail horse! Sigh. Too many fine horses; not enough time .... or money, like you said!
FIRST LET ME AGREE WITH YOU> SHOWING IS ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO PROMOTE THE BREED I AGREE!!!!!!!!!
Although...maybe Secretariat would have enjoyed being a trail horse! 
I plan on doing both with my horses! [dressage & trail riding] I see many show horses that spend most of their day / life in stalls, because they could get a kick mark. Yes there is a risk, though there is a certain bet that if your horse is in, it may get depressed, pick up vices, stock up on a regular basis, have weaker legs, be more prone to lung problems & hoof problems, and COLIC!!ect...
Our horses are outside most of the time, and [knock on wood!] so far they have been healthy happy and sane! Sometimes all the talk of showing ect seems for the owners glory, not the horses best interest.
I don't care if it is a (for example) a georgeous 17.1 hh, Premium Oldenburg mare with a 9 trot...if she spends most of her day / life in a stall, is she happy? So, I guess if you asked the horse if she would rather show, though she had to spend most of her life in a stall.... vs. be a horse that spends most or all of her day outside, and be a pet / trail horse, hmm...what do you think the horse would pick? AGAIN let me say I agree with showing is great promotion! I just don't like to walk through a stable and see all these horse confined to stalls most of their lives, its just not good for them physically or mentally. AND if you have your horses outside GOOD FOR YOU!!!! I'm not saying everyone keeps them in most of the day, it just seems that many people do.
[attachment deleted by admin]
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: March 25, 2003, 10:11:53 AM by Christina »
|
Logged
|
"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
|
|
|
Tamsin
Novice
Offline
Posts: 44
I LOVE Trakehners!
|
I read this article differently, I think. For me, the key question is not US vs German breeding or standards, but WHY the Trakehner is performing so much worse than other breeds in competition. Whilst the TRAKEHNER is not seen as a reliably top level competition horse, it will be difficult to persuade top riders anywhere to buy them - most top riders in Germany and the rest of Europe prefer HANN, OLD, KWPN, HOLST when looking for a top level prospect - the BREED is more successful, nothing to do with the nationality of the breeder.
It is also worth noting that this comment was written 13 years ago - and as far as I know (admittedly wasn't around then), the breed is not more successful now than it was then - if anything less. Yes, there are the notable exceptions - but that's precisely why they are so notable - they are exceptions...
I think the interesting issue is - how can the breed be improved?
If the only new blood available is TB, AA and Arab - why is that not being promoted more?
SHould the Verband give clearer guidance on what breeders should be looking to improve and how to do it?
Or even, should a second stud book be set up and some high quality horses from other breeds allowed into it? There are a lot of half trakehner horses out there who are doing extremely well, but lost to the breed in both breeding and publicity terms as they are wearing another brand. As I understand it, in Germany, 400 Trakehner mares are approved by the Oldenburg Verband and a lot also approved by the Hanoverians - they see what the Trakehner blood can add. As the other breeds have made such bounds in
My big question really is - if the Trakehner blood can add so much to these other breeds, why don't we consider it the other way around? Yes, history is important - but isn't the future more important???
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
suzette b
Guest
|
Christina - I don't know why you think "show horses" and "happy horses" are two mutually exclusive categories. My "show horses" live a life most would DIE for! They have huge airy stalls with very large attached paddocks. They are outside all the time (including and ESPECIALLY my stallions), playing with neighbors through the fences. They get turned out in a large, grass pasture every day (weather permitting), and get plenty of "play-time" with buddies. I think sometimes people get a warped sense of what the life of a "show horse" is by seeing only a couple of bad apples. Try not to glump us all into a category. Most of them are very happy, well adjusted individuals who actually LOVE their work!
Tamsin- I have had the same issue (part-bred registry) come up many, many times in the past. Each time, I have asked, "why don't we create a new registry for crosses that will give them an identity?" At one point, I even put up the idea that we should create a new breed called "Prussians" to use for these horses.
I was told that there were already places to register these horses - they are called "Hannovarians, Oldenbergs, Zwiebruckers, etc."
The Trak is supposed to be a "semi-pure" breed. The rest are "other" warmbloods.
But this doesn't answer the question of how do we capture the glory of those cross-breds who carry Trak blood.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Deb
Guest
|
We can't show. Not enough money. I still don't own a trailer.  I admire those who do and will admit to being a little jealous. I like to think that, in our own little way, my anglo-trak mare and I make a small contribution to awareness of the Trakehner anyway. Many in our area have never heard of the breed. The handful of people who see mine move and comment on her beauty (such as my QH breeder neighbor) have, hopefully, received a very positive introduction to the breed, free of all the stereotypes. In the meantime, I sure love having her!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Karim
Guest
|
Deleted by Poster
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:27:27 AM by Karim »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Beckie
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 269
I LOVE Trakehners!
|
Since all that we hear is the bad stuff, let me share a great story with everyone about the breed. About 10 years ago, I was thinking of moving to LA and was visiting a friend out here. We were in a mall in the Manhattan Beach-Hermosa Beach area and I was wearing a Trak sweatshirt. A woman walked up to me in the mall and commented on the sweatshirt and how wonderful Trakehners were. My "city" friend was flabbergasted that a stranger would walk up to you and start a conversation (which was lenthy because I of course had to brag about my horses!) out of the blue just because you had a sweatshirt on that had a horse brand on it!
Of course, I love this particular sweatshirt because it is the ATA 20 year anniversary one and says something like ATA 1974-1994. I was in a bagel shop on Wilshire Blvd in LA 2 years ago in the same sweatshirt and the kid behind the counter said....."1974, but you weren't born then were you." Needless to say.....after my jaw came off of the floor, I almost kissed him!! HE was not born in 1974!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
shadytrake
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 263
I LOVE Trakehners!
|
Hey Christina,
How'd you get your text to do that? Neat! I wanna learn.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 »
|
|
|
|
 |
