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Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.

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Trakehner Treffpunkt - Trakehner Meeting Place  |  Trakehner Breeding & Bloodlines  |  Breeding  |  Topic: Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« on: February 10, 2003, 05:47:08 PM »

All - As a new forum member and being that I am unfamiliar with TK bloodlines, would the more knowledgeable among you be willing to make some suggestions as to which sires/lines are akin to the following Hanoverian types?

- Grande
- Weltmeyer
- Furioso
- Pik Bube
- Donnerhall
- Atilla

I have found that - anymore - there are few breeders in the US that are breeding for "classic" conformation. Therefore, I have tentatively decided that if I have to go "new school", I will look at Trakehners also.

Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers...
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Re:Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2003, 03:08:11 AM »

Hi and welcome to the wonderful world of Trakehners!!! Grin


Using Trakehner stallions as improvement sires has a long history, especially in the Hannoverian breed. You are probably most familiar with the A-, L- and S- lines, all founded by Trakehner stallions (Abglanz, Lateran, Semper Idem). While the Lateran-line is not so prominent anymore, both the A and S lines are very popular. And this will help you to make decisions as to what crosses work well.

Excellent and most successfull crosses have been performed with Donnerhall and Consul-daughters, resulting in such stallions as the approval champion Don Frederico or the popular Don Vino. Consul was an elite stallion by Swazi xx out of Cornau by Lothar, and sadly died a couple of years ago. BUT, one of the most popular stallions AT ALL, right now, is the Trakehner Connery, a grand-son of Cornau and thus from the same, very good maternal line of Corry by Altan. Connery is a young son of the black Buddenbrock, a descendant of the famous Habicht-Sixtus line, standing for unparalleled success in both breeding and competition. Connery is a classical refiner, with outstanding movement. He covered more Hannoverian mares last year than any other young stallion (any breed) in his age group. His sire Buddenbrock (by elite stallion Sixtus - Diamant) is also a liscensed Celle stud stallion. This line will probably be VERY interesting for Donnerhall offspring, and most importantly, will be a perfect match for any Hannoverain mare requiring refinement, beauty, long lines and elevated movement. Apart from this, this line is also pretty strong in jumping.

Weltmeyer: a World Cup I-son out of an Absatz-daughter. World Cup I 's dam is a direct Semper Idem descendant. So you have Trakehners in the pedigrees from both sides. Weltmeyer had some outstanding offspring with Trakehners, e.g. a pure bred Trakehner mare out of the Kassete family (by Mozart) produced with Weltmeyer the most expensive auction horse to that date (1997) in Oldenburg, the bay National Champion Weltspitze. Also, a Partout/Trak-Weltmeyer son is a state stallion in Bavaria, and a pretty busy one too, as he combines beauty and movement in an ideal way. Weltmeyer will probably also work very well with stallions from the Caprimond-Hohenstein line. First of all, the Partout-mix already shows that Arogno works well (both Partout and Caprimond come from that line), and since Weltmeyer offspring tend to need more general ridability, there is no better way to go!
Furioso, this French AA, already produced an Olympic gold medal winner with Trakehner blood: the chesnut approved For Pleasure (by Furioso out of Gigantin by Grannus, who is out of a half-Trakehner mare by Ozean). For very good jumper blood, you might also want to check out Stakkato, a tremendoulsy talented stallion, coming from the Semper Idem line. A cross that might be VERY interesting for Furioso blood is the black Sixtus, a son of Habicht (see above), who is currently the leading jumper producer in the Trakehner breed in Germany and who won international show jumping events himself. In addition to great talent over fences, he throws outstanding, powerful movement and also refines quite a bit.

Pik Bube has proven as a good combination with Unkenruf, a Donauwind son. Out of this combination with Donnerhall on top result the full brothers and Grand Prix stallions Don Primero and Don Schufro, both leading with their get in the dressage ring.

The 2002 champion stallion in Hannover, the black His Highness, is a son of the Trakehner Hohenstein out of Daireen by Donnerhall (with more Abglanz blood further down). The official magazine of the Hannoverians in Germany said that "His Highness is the most impressive champion Hannover has ever seen".

Another stallion with significant influence in the Hannoverian breed is the chesnut Banditentraum, a descendant of the most successful Ibikus-line. He sired 3 approved sons in Hannover, among them the very attractive Bernstein, who sold to Denmark and became the champion of the 4year old stallions there. He is out of a Winterwald-dam, with more Abglanz blood down in the pedigree.

Otto Langel's black Trakehner champion stallion Kostolany also produced winning offspring with Donnerhall, e.g. the approved KWPN stallion Polansky (by Kostolany out of Lonnevanck by Donnerhall).

All in all, there are many options. The two stallions Caprimond and Hohenstein are the LEADING stallions in Hannover today in terms of producing riding horse traits such as refinement and general ridability. They both have the highest indeces for this, as is stated in "The Hannoverian". Banditentraum covers more Hannoverian mares than Trakehner mares and has a dressage index of 136 points---in both breeds!! The Donnerhall x Consul and Donnerhall x Hohenstein cross can be seen as pretty "secure" and is VERY popular in Hannover right now. Sixtus, Buddenbrock and Connery will probably become in a few years what Hohenstein is now, plus they will also produce talent for jumping as well. Weltmeyer and descendants of the Arogno line have shown to nick well.

There are a hundred more exmaples, e.g. crosses of Rubinstein-blood with Trakehners (Rubinstein coming from a Trakehner origin as well). I hope this helped a little and didn't confuse you more  Wink
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Re:Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2003, 06:36:55 AM »

Hello and welcome!   Grin

Can you just clarify, whether you are looking for sires in North America (available by LC or TS) or for European sires (available by frozen in NA), or both?

And when you say
Quote
to which sires/lines are akin
, are you asking which sires will cross best to mares of those lines, or which sires most closely resemble those lines in terms of conformation, type, etc?
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Re:Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2003, 01:37:45 PM »

Maren - Thank you so very much for the in-depth insight.  It is refreshing to know that there are folks out there that are knowledgeable and are willing to share what they know.  Not confusing at all and very helpful.  I am looking for a "Zentra-esque" filly.

Tannenwald - I will be looking to buy a yearling (stateside. can't afford to import - grad student) next year and am looking for "get" that carry at least some of the performance and conformation characteristics of the Hanoverians that I mentioned in my original post.

Thanks again/in advance for your help.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 01:41:44 PM by 1st-forward » Logged

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Re:Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2003, 03:41:52 AM »

Maren,
My hat is off to you Girl. You are amazing!
By the way does anyone have a picture of the Hohenstein Hannoverian son "His Highness"? Or know where it could be viewed?
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Re:Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2003, 03:53:19 AM »

Thanks guys  Grin I do what I can, education really is the only way!! Besides, these are the best arguments against this constant "opinion" that Trakehners are not competitive horses!

Here is His Highness!

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Re:Hanoverian Fan - looking for TK sire suggestions.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2003, 08:43:38 PM »

WOW!  What a beautiful horse.  Wish he were over here!   Roll Eyes
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