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Topic: Stallion Testing USA (Read 2574 times)
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TwinGates
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Posts: 2,342
Performance Matters!
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Brad attended for the ATA, but could only be there the weekend prior to this meeting b/c it coincided w/the already-planned ATA Board Meeting. (Spoke to Helmut tonight; apparently this came about rather quickly so it's lucky Brad was able to juggle his schedule & give the ATA a voice, but too bad he couldn't be there for the photo op).
Long story short, Silver Creek is committed to becoming a stallion testing station (10, 30/70 and even 100-day) independent of affiliation w/any particular registry. That all the registries are willing to get together and discuss is a VERY positive first step, but there are significant challenges to address, including:
1. Universal format for stallion performance evaluation
a. Neither the AHHA nor ATA require a 10, 30/70 or 100-day testing of stallions
2. Standardized grading
b. The AHA, BWP & ISR/Old all accept the same forms of organized testing, but they have different minimum required scores for approval.
So, this is definitely a work in progress, but it IS progress, and hopefully will move the ATA one step closer to requiring higher standards of performance for our approved stallions.
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Kumi
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Posts: 46
I LOVE Trakehners!
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I'm surprised there is not more discussion about this topic. There was more discussion about not testing stallions than about the possibility of this new and exciting testing format. I think this is a great idea, whose time has come. Any idea what Brad thought of this - what is the feeling of the Board? I would like to hear where the discussions are going regarding this new test and I hope they are developed to be a real option for ATA stallion owners.
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Maren
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The Bouncer
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Thanks guys, I agree completely.
Regarding same standards - that is not even the case in Germany. The State government requires minimum of 80 points, but most registries have raised that bar and request 90 points (70 day test). However, one huge book sticks to 80 - and that is Westfalia. In 1995, we saw a very exciting premium stallion in NMS, Saint Tropez. He was sold at auction to the Westfalian State Stud in Warendorf (the first Trakehner in 25 years!) and then sent through the 100 day test back then. He "failed" Trakehner standards (90 points), but remained ok for Westfalia and the Rhineland. Not uncommon, for three year old "blood" stallions to not meeting a certain criteria (Windfall barely made it). But here we have the peculiar situation that this stallion is one of the Top 10 performance horse producers in Westfalia (his index ranks him in the Top ten, with offspring at S level dressage and S level show jumping) - and the Trakehner breed misses out because of his test score as a 3yr old. That may or may not be a pity. Point is - it's the rule that everybody agreed on. Time to talk about change? Possibly. But it's not for us "breeders" to decide right now I guess. Saint Tropez certainly does a lot of good for the reputation of the Trakehner horse and is everything but a "failed" stallion.
Since the ATA site doesn't even list the SSA results I think it's very unrealistic we'll ever hear any news on the meeting regarding the stallion testing.
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horses
ata
Preliminary
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Posts: 69
I LOVE Trakehners!
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This is the second round for trying to get the ATA involved in the stallion testing in the USA. The first round was intiated by Tylord Farm in the 80's when they sent three stallions through the 100 day test held in Keswick, Virginia at November Hill Farm. They invited the ATA and German representative's to attend the final testing. It was all set for this to happen but Robin Koenig killed it at the last minute in favor of bringing the German guests to a Thoroughbred breeding farm. Those test's were open to all breeds and run by Gerd Zuther, former head of the stallion preparation and testing for Klosterhof Medigan and mentor of Helmar Bescht, one of the top stallion handlers in Germany today. The majority of the rider's were also young people from Germany that Gerd brought over. The final Judges represented no less than three breed registries. Hopefully this time around the ATA will be more open minded in encouraging particapation. All three of Tylord's three young stallions passed easily with scores from 105 to 126. Two of them went on to have very successful careers in the Hunter/Jumper rings, selling a year later for over six figures apiece. The third one was also sold and is currently a very successful Grand Prix dressage horse earning his owner both her Gold Medal and Gold Bar from USDF. Only one is still whole.
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horses
ata
Preliminary
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Posts: 69
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Robin and Terry Koenig were very involved active members of the ATA, showing horses at the annual show and presenting stallions. They ran a training/breeding/sales stable for the Chandlers in Virginia. Terry was a rising star with her stallion Inspekteur by Mahagoni. They were headed for training in Germany and everyone thought they were going to go all the way. A very tragic riding accident unexpectantly took Terry's life in her mid 30's. Robin came for a while after that but gradually stopped coming even though he is still a member. Robin was on the Board at the time he was acting Host to the German guests. In the early years the ATA was unmoving in their opinion that they would not inspect a stallion outside the venue of the annual meeting in Ohio. Of course history has a way of changing everything. With the onslaught of all the other breed registries traveling around the country doing smaller inspections the ATA was almost forced to follow suit. During this same time frame Gerd resigned from November Hill Farm and there was a period of uncertainity about the 100 day tests and how some of the subsequent ones were run. So the issue has not come up again until now.
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Elfe
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FEI
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I love Trakehners!
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Robin and Terri Koenig lived in Virginia and promoted Trakehners very actively from the Middleburg Equestrian Center. They were instrumental in importing many mares and stallions, among others Gideon, Seigneur, Espresso, Hitchcock, Onassis, Veneziano,
Khalif (in utero), Ichi-Ban, Schoenfeld, Emeer and, of course, Inspekteur.
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horses
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Preliminary
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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In the very early years going back to the 70's they were at Penmerryl Farm in virginia owned by the Chandler's then they were at Middleburg Equestrian. They definately had a large pressence in the early years of the ATA. After Terry's death the ATA started a special perpetual trophy in her name. I am not sure if they still do that but for the newer members now you know how it all came about.
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Maren
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The Bouncer
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The obvious hurdle to overcome is cost. A 30 day test in Germany costs a stallion owner appr. 1500 Euros. I read somewhere here that the new ISR 10 day test (which is really pathetic, IMHO) is something like 5K. That makes no sense and is completely detrimental to the cause. Unless we can figure out a way to make this cost-effective for stallion owners, the one argument that will kill all progress is money. And it shouldn't be.
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horses
ata
Preliminary
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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I agree with you Maren, cost is a big factor considering that the end result in the breeding shed could be disappointing and not cost effective. Years ago to send a stallion through the November Hill Farm 100 day test it was $5,000.00, plus the proof of insurance cost and all the other extras that were required brought it up to an average of $7,500.00. The cost now would be a lot higher. There are two other big considerstions though and one is the fact that the 100 day or 30/70 day tests are heavily weighted towards jumping horses. It leaves the talented young dressage horses at a disadvantage. I don't think the 10 day test even bears mentioning. This is the area that Hilda G. addressed several years ago in the Chronicle of the Horse. The second is the quality of the rider's/handler's that will do the day to day work with the stallions. We have all heard the horror stories of the mishaps that have taken place. I can attest first hand experience with that. I am not saying that this is not a worthy enterprise to have a testing station but it deserves a great deal of discussion before anyone gets on the band wagon.
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horses
ata
Preliminary
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Helmar Bescht has a permanent core group of experienced rider's. Then if he has a large number of stallions or mares coming in he picks gets the extra help he needs. This provides a consistency in his program. The opinion of the Director is also weighted more heavily than any of the other scores given out during the testing period. There are a lot more resources for this in Germany than there are here in the States. This process, by virtue of their age, for most stallions is their introduction to work under saddle. Starting off on the "right" foot is essential. If they have a bad experience and loose their confidence it can take months and months of careful retraining. The risk of injury is always a concern too but for me the people training the stallion is the most important. They only have your horse for a "moment" and then they get to hand it back to you.
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Maren
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The Bouncer
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All valid points. Kim, the big test stations, especially the State Studs, have constant riders that are around for more than one test. You can get lucky or not. The point is, 30/70 day testing is NOT the answer to all questions. It can only be one piece in a much bigger puzzle. Question is, if we never start at some point, where will we?? If a stallion owner is so afraid of getting back a terribly handled horse, then there are other ways to performance test. ALL of it requires a good horse, a long breath, and money. No way around it. But it is designed to keep a certain quality standard alive, and hence is the very core of our breed.
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horses
ata
Preliminary
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Well said Maren. I have sent four stallions through a stallion testing and was lucky with three and not with one, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. Thankfully they all came through sound of limb. If you believe in this system, which I do, you have to do just what you said, hold your breath, let go of the control over your horse and then hope he comes out the other side all the better for the experience.
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horses
ata
Preliminary
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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Whether or not you train yourself or send your horse to a trainer, the one aspect of having your horse at a testing that you can not duplicate in any other situation is the horse to horse competition between the participating stallions. Collectively as a group they are given scores. This is not the same criteria you would find by bringing your own horse to an open competition. The scores that are so highly valued at the testing would be missing, temperament, trainability, work ethic, interior, etc. Those scores can only be validated by outside professionals giving their opinion about the horse from a hands on experience with them.
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