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Topic: Frozen - anyone going that route this year (Read 1666 times)
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mysticadagio
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I am considering looking at stallions not in the country and have just started checking out what is available. anyone else heading down this scarey road or anyone already been there that can offer advice
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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Old Hand
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Posts: 935
TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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Hi Terri,
Looking into it here (for that Kaspareit filly), but still at the stage of trying to get expense info from Michigan State U on doing the deed (no local vets with frozen experience). We might just wait til next year to breed Elfi, since the other 3 girls will be open and good to go in 2002.
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Glory
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Novice
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Posts: 25
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I have been thinking about it, just can't decide if it is worth all the trouble. Checking out available stallions and prices now.
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mysticadagio
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After last years failure with my two on fresh shipped frozen is very, very scarey. I have a young filly who could be bred next year and the thought has crossed my mine. CSU is up the road and I would have to assume since they are the first to freeze eggs there's someone up there who knows the scoop. Has anyone chosen a particular stallion they like? This year my focus is getting those two from last year on fresh but the thought has passed through my mind and with the right fertile mare hmmmmm. As if I don't throw enough money at these guys 
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Equine Connection
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 444
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We had great success w/breeding our stallion's sire here with frozen semen since '95, so we are building an inventory of frozen for Happy Hour. Like his sire, he appears to be an excellent candidate for frozen semen - based on his post-thaw testing and results. It's quite a fascinating process, to say the least! We have leased a mare, so we may go ahead and attempt to breed her to Happy w/frozen.
I think the level of the knowledge, experience and level of comfort for the vets in working with frozen semen seems to be increasing each year based upon what we have observed. It is essential, however, that the vet have a solid working knowledge w/frozen and the capability to closely monitor the mare - a real "key" to success. Taking a mare to the vet's clinic where he can closely monitor her is of great help. And, the mare also needs to be a suitable candidate for frozen semen breeding, as this is not always the case. In addition, I feel a most important aspect is that the mare owner know her mare's cycles.
Last year, in an effort to attract mare owners for frozen semen breeding to our stallion, we offered a very reasonable rate for the frozen semen, to "test" it, if you will. I would suspect we will do this again this year in hopes of attracting more interest for qualified mare candidates.
Frozen definitely has it pros (and some cons), but we are hopeful that each year, the level of expertise and use of frozen semen will increase. In the long run, it is more cost-effective, time-effective, and most important, easier on the stallion, particularly if he is a performance stallion, as well. 
Very best wishes to all for a very healthy, happy and successul breeding season!
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Warm Regards,
Renee & Happy Hour
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Amanya
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Preliminary
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Posts: 96
Life is Choices
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While I have not had personal experience with frozen, I agree with Renee that it is really helpful to have the mare at a good clinic, and at a minimum use a vet who is really skilled not only at AI but understands the whole process with frozen. I think that is the key.
I have been around other stallion owners (not Trakehners stallions) who are not that particular in their collection process, or think they can do all the cooling and even freezing themselves. Make sure that the stallion owner(s) are working with reliable vets. Some vets are good with AI, but are not that experienced with using frozen straws. So do your
homework -- that's your best insurance for a successful breeding.
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Equine Connection
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 444
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 Hey Amanya: Happy New Year!!! Hope you and your family had a wonderful holiday season.
I got a real education when I went to visit the Flyinge in Sweden when Induc was there, as they are one of the world's leading authorities on the freezing of equine semen. They took me through the process step-by-step and still, I only have a layman's knowledge. It's really quite high-tech. It is most definite that the methodology used to collect, freeze, store, as well as the thawing process that can make or break success - not to mention having a very qualified vet fully experienced w/frozen semen and AI breeding. Also, some stallions are not viable candidates for frozen semen breeding. They are fine with live cover and fresh, chilled, but when one is dealing w/frozen, the quantity is far less than w/chilled, and the "window of opportunity," so to speak, is less. And, as I mentioned before, the more knowledgeable a mare owner is about her mare's cycles, the better chances of success. It's quite a fascinating process!
What you mentioned about "who" is performing the collection, the freezing, etc., etc., is of the utmost importance. This is not something that should be done at home. That is why we haul Happy 2+ hours to be collected, because Paul Loomis & Select Breeders are among the top in the country. They are experts in their field, they handle the stallions very well, and they run very detailed testing, etc., to ensure that the proper extenders, etc., are tailored to each stallion's needs. Plus, at each collection, they provide us with a detailed semen analysis, which we include w/our shipment. We find all of these services most beneficial for our clients. With the frozen, we also receive a report for each batch - the "post-thaw" results are of more significance, particularly with regard to the "progressive motility" (the % of normal, healthy, forward-swimming sperm cells).
Hugs & kisses from Happy to Ms. Kasserine (a/k/a "Sunshine")
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« Last Edit: January 10, 2002, 08:46:34 AM by Equine_Connection »
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Warm Regards,
Renee & Happy Hour
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fuzzy
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I've never used anyting but live cover, but frozen semen from an old comrade of mine has been made available. I'd like to aquire it, but have to plans to use it for at least a year - I want to get my own mare to third level before breeding again. Also, there is a mare I'd like to use in a breeding lease, but not unless she can be proved breeidng sound ( so far, no good). What info can you guys share about the life expectancy of frozen semen, and what it takes to store it. Is it something I could keep in the chest freezer with the groceries, or is it more complex than that? Thanks!
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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Old Hand
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Posts: 935
TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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Frozen has an unlimited (or only unknown) "shelf-life" provided it was prepared correctly and has been handled and stored correctly. It is stored in liquid nitrogen tanks and that storage is generally done at a University or other equine repro specialist's facility. The prices I have seen for storage were in the area of 8-25 per month per stallion. Both of those boys in question are particularly interesting, but deciding to make the leap into using frozen is a bit scary (since it would involve hauling down to Michigan State for us).
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fuzzy
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Thanks, Ingrid. I'm trying to find out if it is feasible for me to use this route - In terms of stud fees, it's a potentially cheap way out. The storage and vet costs are what I"m researching now. Considering I really don't want another foal for two years or so, I really need to do a lot of looking (in a very short time) before I leap - which I'd like to do before someone elso does . . .
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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Hi, there all - I'm going the frozen route this year, well trying anyway. My pick was Latimer, for my Mozart mare. I bought the semen last spring and it was stored in the broker's tank until I asked them to send it to the clinic. I am located in Northern California, and I hauled the mare down to Solvang, CA (near Santa Barbara), to a reproduction clinic that specializes in frozen AI and embryo transfers. This clinic has two vets on site during each day, and a tech actually lives over the barn. I was very impressed with the facility and my mare is happy and looking at the experience as a vacation  she is inside, but gets turned out to lush pasture with other mares all day. The vets are very hands on, and I feel that if the frozen is going to work, this is the best way to find out. They call me every few days with an update, including the mare's attitude and a report card on how well she plays with others  . If it doesn't work, she's in the best place to be inseminated with the fresh candidate I've chosen as the backup. Believe it or not, the cost of the clinic is reasonable -I expected worse (price includes unlimited palpations, ultrasound, etc, plus they check and document the motility of each straw so you know the percentage is what the broker guaranteed). All in all, the experience has been a good one, and I feel fortunate to have a larger base of stallions to choose from, and that we all have the capability to infuse some new blood in NA. I'll keep you all updated on the progress. This is a 13-year-old maiden mare, so keep your fingers crossed for us! Happy breeding! Lara
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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Old Hand
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Posts: 935
TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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Good luck, Lara!
How fortunate to find a facility charging reasonable prices. I got an estimate from the university of $900-$1200 per cycle, contemplating only a 5-6 day stay for the mare, and just about died!
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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Oh, my goodness! That's incredible. My mare has been at the clinic for six weeks, we skipped the first cycle, they've brought her into season three times now since - the first to do a culture, the second to lavage, and now this one to inseminate. Each one has extra costs for the shot, but the rest was included in the overall cost. I'm paying $17/day for board (well-earned w/ turnout, hot walker, buckets, grooming and feed), but the AI w/ frozen has a set fee with charges for any extras outlined in the contract. To date, covering all expenses, I've paid less than $900. The one issue with this clinic is availability. It's first-come, first-served, so everyone is watching their mares like crazy for any signs so they can get there early, otherwise you're on a waiting list which usually doesn't open up until later in spring. One day in February I found some "egg yolk" in the mare's stall , and boom, we were loaded and gone the next morning. I love these smiley faces - what a crack up. I can't believe this is the only place around that does this for a reasonable price, if it is, I feel very fortunate to live within reasonable hauling distance (about 4 hours). Are there any private clinics near you? I looked at a respected University near us and the cost was prohibitive, and the facility was less than desirable. Does anyone go with their regular vet to do this? I spoke with mine and they had a tank, and were willing to do it, but admitted it would be their first time no, thanks. Plus the costs alone in visits, palpations, etc would be astronomical, not to mention hauling back and forth for each procedure. Hope this helps give some perspective, and I'll keep you updated on the progress!
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