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Topic: Reality Check (Read 3605 times)
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EclypseSporthorses
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Go The Distance
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Up for discussion. I ran into this video today. While I don't approve of this style of riding on an every day basis, I understand that this is for an auction and hence, sort of needs to happen. For the view outside the Trakehner realm and a little realty check where other 3yr old (note the age, folks!) horses are, take a look at Statesman by Stedinger in the Oldenburg Auction last weekend (who, btw, was bred and owned by an American, but was born and raised in Germany). I'm throwing this out there for discussion, and if it's controversial, good. My intention  |
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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Joy
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I love Trakehners!
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It is a personal choice about when to start horses, though I believe that horses can be safely started as 2 year olds.
<snip>
I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks a 3 year old can be sat upon.
Christina, I don't think many people wait until 3 or 4 to start[i] their horses. I start my horses early. Training consists of much more than [i]backing them! I agree that light longeing is invaluable, and I personally have seen that the more a horse learns early on, the better its work ethic. I've also had excellent trainers (for me as well as my horses) who showed me how to teach everything on the ground except actually sitting (i.e. backing) the horse.
My horses are very easy to back, because they've been trailered, ponied, led over hill and dale, exposed to all kinds of different experiences, longed, tacked, shown, and even had 50 lb sacks placed on them to get used to the idea of weight on their backs. They've been long-lined, driven, taught to release to pressure, jumped over cavaletti, and frankly, if I had the gear and knowhow, they'd have been pulling as well.
Ever moment you spend with a horse is teaching time. Better to take advantage of it, or you may be teaching just the opposite of what you want. The only thing I disagree on is actually backing and riding a 2 year old, and even a short 3 y.o., so maybe we're not so far apart on our opinions after all.
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fuzzy
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Ditto, Joy, though I DO have the 'stuff' for driving and will probably have my filly in harness next year - as a two-year-old. She's a little squirt, so she'll be much easier to break to drive than her big (nearly 16 hand) brother. I can't keep up with him to ground drive him! Early (2 1/2 to 3) and slow is how I've backed all my horses, and it has worked well. I like them to know all the rules by the time they get full strength - much easier and safer that way, especially when (like me) you have no help.
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EclypseSporthorses
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thats really great that you do all that Joy~ I commend you for how much time you spend on your horses, ponying them is great and really prepares them for riding. I still stand by my lonely & (in the warmblood arena) humble opinion that a two year old can be safely started under saddle. Maybe I'll just have to wait until Faith is 16 and still doing 50's or hundreds to read someone on here reply that it wasn't a bad thing~  ahh, but then, it will probably be a fluke, and she will probably be an exception~ 
Today, I'm off on a 220 mile round trip to look at a greenie 5 year old Trakehner mare for a family. This family is buying their first Trakehner, they made the observation shopping on that the *majority* of Trakehners out there are never started or started 2 years ago, bred and haven't been rode since, or injured...and so, they had started looking at broke horses of another breed. Is part of the Trakehners bad reputation due to owners not training the horses early enough? Is it so much so that when people see a Trakehner that they see one not started early enough to instill good work ethic, and assume the breed is bad??? I was horse shopping yesterday and saw some horses of another breed, that made me really think that the Trakehners are not too hot, they are started too late. Would quarter horses and TB's have the equally bad rep if they were all started late or not at all and that was what people saw?
Here's a question; Are too many Trakehner owners focused *so* much on the inspection/approval/breeding process...
so many that it becomes more of a (sorry :(for the strong analogy) puppy mill with very few of them
being housebroken?
Who would want to buy into that, unless
of course they are sold on the sentiment and tradition of the breed (which we all are sold on), but not everybody is, and that old sentiment of history, love of breeding and creating a perfect trakehner is not enough to preserve and insure the breeds future, being a novelty certianly is not enough, having a great history & story line is not enough...world does not need another pretty horse dancing on the end of a lead, looking breathtakingly beautiful...it needs horses that work, I am a firm ( can you tell) believer of teaching horses to be horses, not pets that can do an obstacle course, although there is a lot of that going around. 
How can the Trakehner breed draw in new riders when there isn't much to ride? Can it be that too many owners focus is on getting horses approved and bred, that not much is being done for training? Radical thought, take those saved up stud fees and put training on last year crop.
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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fuzzy
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HHMMM, I get your "puppy mill" analogy. It totally fits two or three "Trakehner breeders" I can think of. None of the three had any kind of reume' in the saddle (Doesn't MAKE a breeder, but can help a breeder, especially if your sale horses stick around long enough to get "a haircut and a real job"), but also made poor choices in foundation mares and what to cross them to. One of them allowed kids to ride a yearling and jump him @ two, one of the others does not believe in teaching horses to tie or crosstie - ever. Even a $500 mutt trail horse should stand tied . . . . ever think about trying to hold your horse while you're taking a pee break way out in the woods? Or having him trampling morels if you take him out to cover more ground during "shroom" season?
I think you are dead-on in essentially saying that some breeders think that being a Trakehner should be enough for a young horse to be desirable. I think most people (riders, anyhow) care a lot more about a horse's skill set than his breed or pedigree.
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Joy
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I love Trakehners!
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thats really great that you do all that Joy~ I commend you for how much time you spend on your horses, ponying them is great and really prepares them for riding. I still stand by my lonely & (in the warmblood arena) humble opinion that a two year old can be safely started under saddle. Maybe I'll just have to wait until Faith is 16 and still doing 50's or hundreds to read someone on here reply that it wasn't a bad thing~ ahh, but then, it will probably be a fluke, and she will probably be an exception~
In the interests of truth, I've gotta admit I haven't followed that with my current 2 y.o. Yes, she's been trailer, longed, tacked, leaned on, led, taught to release to pressure, but haven't yet ponied her (though I've taken her for long walks in  scary places, where there are <gasp> strange dogs and mailboxes. She also hasn't been long-lined and driven or jumped over cavaletti as yet. (My life got away with me over the past two years, and I'm just getting it back.)
I admit, too, that since I passed the 60 mark, I'm far more reluctant to back a young horse than I was 10 years ago, especially with no one around to help. The more mature the mind of the horse, the more courageous I become.
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EclypseSporthorses
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Joy,
I do think that young mental training can be key to a horse's success in the future, and in some cases~ how a breed in general is observed by others. Right down the road from me, there is a huge old farm, you'd never know it from just driving by that they own some of the best Percherons in the Midwest.
Beauties. They drive their horses dutifully, and when young...and use them into old age, driving them in famous Parades, using them for tillage and turning hay...I have Amish friends back in Ohio..and they start 'em young too....I know that Amish (just like us Yanks) don't do everything the same as their neighbors, but the ones that have great horses, start them young. It is nothing to see a baby tied to it's dam as she pulls a wagon. Baby learns to tie, learns to work, learns to follow direction other than what's in it's baby instict to do--in general becomes more accepting of having a job. Just teaching a horse to stand tied, not cross tied, tied & sometimes tied with tack on for 30 min or more, maybe an hour, is something a horse should know before it is accepting a rider...not many that I know outside of working horse (draft, western, driving) do this (though maybe many do). 
I just think that sometimes, common sense things get lost, and that we can learn so much from each other and other breeds. Horses can retain things they learn, and there are many things that a horse can learn, and then set the winter and pick up again. My eventing friend starts all her horses their two year old year, lets them set the winter and starts again at three, so do my western (cutting, team penning, reining) friends.
IMHO~ Warmblood owners *maybe* missing out on teaching their horses powerful lessons, like work is a way of life, and getting that imprinted early on.
Two year olds, get harmed if overworked, worked on speed, worked on collection, overworked on hills, worked on fast stops and turns, worked over fences....
but two year old that learn what saddle/sidepull/rider/light work are....have lifelong benefits from it. And, it is also a great chance that a few dozen or a few hundred well started, quiet 2 and 3 year old Trakehners for sale could have a huge difference in the Trakehner market--certainly if by the time they are 4 or 5 they are not being sold as green or 'started' years ago...
I know, I can think of some breeders, farms that are doing great at starting their young horses, and what do you know, I bet they sell more than average.
JMHO.
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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Maren
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As for Peron being a poor example or not... that is a personal decission, but I personally haven't seen one that I would want in my breeding program.
How many have you seen? Do you know how many it takes to get a statistical relevant outcome to make such a statement? And how do you factor in the mare that he was bred to?
I don't want to use this particular stallion as an example. But I do want to make you aware of how easy it is to say something like that when there is really very little "hard data" (breeding indices for example) to back it up. Of course, I also agree with you on never going against once gut feeling. If yours is to stay away from Peron, then I would totally agree: keep at it. After all, a lot in breeding is instinct!
but you are seeming to say that "if it isn't performing it shouldn't be breeding/approved"
Yes, that is it in a nutshell. Possible ways to do it:
1) Definitely increase performance requirements for ATA stallions. I know we're all so happy everything is "German approved" now but so far, not a single ATA approved stallion has completed "German performance requirements" since this new agreement came into place. I'm not happy with current performance testing, but it is the best that exists right now. 30/70 day testing for 3 and 4yr old colts. Alternatively, make a specific score/placing at Devon (in the open class, not the Trakehner class) part of a performance test analog the German Bundeschampionat rule. STOP THE NOVICE EVENT. It hurts our breed more than many will ever relalize.
2) Stallions that can't do a performance test between the ages of 3-5, or have sufficient FEI equivalents under their belt by the age of 6 lose approval. They will get it back the second they compete at PSG and above, equivalents in eventing and show jumping of course. Think KOVINGTON!!!
I do agree that we need to constantly improve our breed - but I also don't think we need to totally get away from ourselves. I had an interesting conversation recenlty with an OLD breeder of TKs and it was mentioned that they felt we are "loosing our roots" and going too far in the direction of "modern' and forgetting what being a Trakehner is. Not sure if I agree 100%, but I do agree with the principle of that. We do need movement (esp canter) and we do need some more jump in our horses, but we don't need to sacrifice the brain/legs etc that make a trakehner a trakehner.
Did you ask the old breeder what he meant by "loosing roots". Which roots? We're not in the 50s anymore. Horses with flat front arms, a back like a truck bed and pasterns the length of their hoove size are no longer around - nor should they. The only true Trakehner that we need to get "back to" is the Trakehner that won 6 medals at the 1936 Olympics. THAT type of horse will always be in demand. Too bad we're not even close yet ...
Tks have the rep of being "crzy and hot"
You know who is the one source of a lot of that talk?? Trakehner people. By constantly reminding the rest of the world that "Trakehners are not hot" you actually remind them in the first place that something was wrong some time ago.
You will not be bothered by a single comment on character or temper when you horse goes in a clean a 5yr old FEI class under saddle. And you know what? It can even jump aside or not pay 150% attention, if it presents itself like Statesman in the video. That is the reality of European show grounds. And it is just as much in America. The German professional world has prejudice against Trakehners NOT because of temper issues or less rideability, but because they think (and often are right) that our horses lack motor and power to sustain upper level work and still step under. And that is correct. THAT needs improvement.
Now, my personal opinion in this is that I don't breed dressage horses, I breed versatile all-rounders that can do 3rd level dressage, jump at level 6 and event at least through preliminary - and that is what I request of every one of our products at home. And I've shown our own horses at that, even higher in eventing and show jumping. What I breed for is indeed, personal choice. However, it is also something more when you try to "fix" a breed overall.
I personally am very sad to see the great divergence of the Trakehner breed being diluted to the "black/beautiful/dressage" part - the breed is so much more, and needs to stay that way. With the demands of the modern market, sadly, we see a lot of people breeding for the above black type and I doubt that will be a big benefit 50 years down the road. There is the problem of genetic variability (we don't have enough for a breed our type) and many other things to consider. I'm glad I'm not a breed director
However, to start somewhere, the core of all, in fact the very reason we have these horses, is their demand as a partner under saddle. Granted a few people may want to own a Trak just to look at it, but that is a small number and these people will ALWAYS find what they're looking for. No matter how hard we breed and how careful we select, of course not every foal is a world class mount. If it was this easy .... we've seen our share of not so great foals at home. They turned out decent riding horses, but I'm nor afraid to say, I was glad when some of them finally found a new home.
There are some people that think that if you breed the big gaits, the temperament etc for the pro rider you have a horse that a child or an amateur can not ride and I don't believe in that.
Excellent point, I agree. Which is another reason why breeding to "unproven" stallions (as in performance, their own) for "temperament" reasons is simply wrong. You can get AMAZING AO horses from some of the most notorious "bad boys" in the breed. My personal favorite in this respect is the Habicht line and Sixtus in particular. Most people never met one or the other, or rode offspring of one or the other, but everybody seems to know they're "difficult". I think the politically correct word is "spirited" .
Yet the number of AO and kid-safe horses of this line that I have seen in the past 20 years is amazing, staggering in fact. 2007, the Gala Show in NMS had a theme where handicapped kids, mentally and physically, and some of them severe, came in to demonstrate how horses can help them. There were three horses: one by Windfall, one by EH Beg xx, one by Sixtus, going around in an arena with appr. 4000 visitors, paying perfect attention to the job at hand.
My point: EVERY good performance stallion will produce AO horses. Nobody is going to miss out on anything by using them.
Thanks Kumi - while I'm only good with words, you actually showed us all how to do it in the real world. And no, Kumi is not a millionaire who had no trouble finding the best rider in the world ....
And thanks EclipseSporthorse, right on. I hope you freeze your boy down before you move on. While in a totally new department, I love the versatility of his sport and how well he's done in it. At a young age.
Exactly what is required in the 30 day test and the 70 day test and at what age are these done? What are the age-related shows?
30 day test: training of the stallions every day for 30 days with individual scores on all gaits under saddle as well as temperament, and jumping (only free, not under saddle). A set of 2 final test days with test riders and outside judges giving the same scores as the test station manager for the previous 30 days. Scores are weighed (and don't ask me of the ratios, I'm not sure) and given for: walk, trot, canter, temperament, rideability, jumping performance and an overall score.
70 day test: see the above, plus constitution, willingness to work, ability to perform, a cross country test, and dressage and show jumping. Dressage part is 1st level which in Germany includes extensions and walk/halt and trot/halt as well as walk - canter transitions. Jumping at 3'3'' to 4'' especially when it is obvious a stallion will score better as a "jumper" than as a dressage horse. 70 days of daily evaluation, final stage of 3 test days with outside judges and test riders.
None of that is the final word of wisdom. It can only be an indication. It can lead in the totally wrong direction, but that is why at least in Germany, you will hardly find a 4yr old stallion that is NOT publicly shown. And at age 4, they can jump in competition up to 3'9'', show in young dressage horse tests up to 2nd level, and event in young event horse classes (only xc, judged on quality of canter, rideability, jumping form and ability) at training level.
Another question. What do you think are realistic levels in the different disciplines for a five year old horse. Not a top horse ridden by a pro but something that everybody could do?
Training level eventing for sure, 2nd level in dressage, jumpers up to 3'9''/4'', and a little less if your horse is not made to jump that well.
Our rule of thumb at home: the 4yr old mares start in xc clinics and small training runs somewhere around Novice-Training and start showing xc for real at age 5 at training level and not lower. We jump the jumpers to level 6 before they have foals that we BREED TO JUMP. If mom can't do it, where is it supposed to come from??
Dressage: I expect every horse on the place to be able to do 3rd level work. My old eventer, who HATED dressage, has the trot of a sewing machine and very little patience and still had to show through 3rd level in regular shows, and to this day will give you tempi changes (3s and 4s) and excellent piaffe work. Did he enjoy it? Certainly not. Did it tell me a lot about the partner I cantered through CCIs, sort of depending on him a lot? You bet. I would KILL to clone that horse as a mare - and his movement is much of the opposite of Stateman, at least in the trot
Guess this was long enough, thanks everybody for sticking around.
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acottongim
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Wow Maren, did I touch a nerve?? I wasn’t even going to comment anymore on this post as I had said my piece and was done with it. But, since apparently what I said generated so much vitriol I wanted to come back and clarify something and also agree with something.
I am NOT bashing Peron. I mentioned him in passing as an example of an “upper level performance horse” that has not reproduced himself. I’m not saying that his offspring are dog meat, nor am I saying that his grandkids might make more of a name for themselves. I’m just saying that I personally have not seen anything (and yes, I’ve seen several of his offspring in person including his approved son) that comes close to Peron himself. I’ve had this exact same conversation with “r” and “R” judges about this very horse and THEY have said the exact same thing to me – and some of them have owned Peron offspring. I’m not alone in the world with this. They are good horses, they are decent horses, they are no where near the caliber over all that Peron was. A great breeding stallion will consistently out produce themselves (and isn’t that what we are breeding for – to out produce our mares and stallions?). Before he died, I looked long and hard at him as a breeding sire. I looked at him, I looked at the mares that he bred at (usually photos), and looked at the offspring (usually video/photos) but ended up not using him as he didn’t suit my mare at the time.
My point in even bringing that subject up was to point out that just because a horse reaches the upper echelons of sport (I think we can agree that would be the Olympics) doesn’t mean that what he/she produces will also reach the upper echelons of sport. BUT on the flip side of that, just because a horse sits in someone’s backyard and doesn’t ever go to a show past the necessary requirements of approval doesn’t mean that his/her offspring WON’T reach the upper echelons of sport.
That being said – I would LOVE for every stallion, mare, and gelding to be out competing and make it to the top of their game. That isn’t going to happen for everyone though – finances, location, time away from work, whatever will keep a person from showing their horse. I do think that stallion owners need to make a commitment to show their boys though – at least for a few years and prove what they are capable of. And just to be clear, I’m not talking about getting him out to a Novice Event and saying “ok we’re done now” get them out and show them as long as the horse is doing well, the finances are holding up, and it is still possible with the breeding end of things to put him on the circuit – get them to go as far as you and he can go. For some people (who are very lucky and have the sponsors) you may be able to get your stallion all the way to the Olympics, for some it is to Preliem, and for some it is only as far as 3rd/4th level at a dressage show.
I am with you on making the performance requirements harder – can we AT LEAST make them do TRAINING?? LOL Seriously – Training/Preliem, or if we MUST do Novice, make them do x number of novice events where they finish in the top 3 or something… And I also like the idea of a MPT for our mares. This breed is a versatile breed that was made to do eventing – at least in regards to we were originally breeding to be the military mounts and they would do some dressage, some jumping, and some x-country. Our horses (all sexes) should be able to do lower levels of dressage (2nd level is the highest of the lower levels to me) and be able to make it around a 3’ course at the very least (both in stadium and on the hunt field). Why can’t we free jump our mares like the Hannos do?
Frankly, I RIDE my horses – I know it doesn’t seem like it right now, but I’m a new breeder (my oldest horse is 5). I don’t have anything that is rideable right now except Preston – and he is in Southern Pines with an event rider. She also has my 3 yo Connemara pony to break and train. They are my oldest horses (and the pony was 3 in Sept). Proof is in the pudding and I guess in the next 3 years or so we’ll find out if my breeding choices have been correct or way off base.
I don’t want to comment on what I think is appropriate for a certain age horse to do competition/under saddle wise. There are too many factors that can go into it. Preston was MUCH more mature and “ready” to be started at a long 2 ½ year old (he was one month shy of his 3rd birthday when we started him) than Tate is right now for example. With Preston, I could get on him, walk/trot/canter on the first day and if I’d had time could have had him solid Training level within 60 days or less (that work thing gets in the way of riding though sometimes). My plan with Tate is to LIGHTLY back him in Dec/Jan just so he knows that there is something to life besides the girls, then in the late spring/early summer really start him – he won’t see a show ring under saddle until he is 3 ½ more than likely. That is just as an example of how two horses of the same breed can be so different and why I don’t want to say that we should have all of our 3 yo stallions doing xyz, and they should be at this other level by 4… it may work that way, or it may not depending on the horse.
And yes, I am a HUGE fan of Toni. I have referred several people to Kumi for possible breeding to him and in fact had talked to her myself about breeding to him next year. Unfortunately I lost the mare I was going to breed to him, and because of a craptastic summer, have too many breedings, not enough mares and breeding to Toni will have to wait until one of my fillies from this year are old enough to breed to him. I think that he is a great rep of the breed, and I think the world of Kumi’s dedication to her horse and her wanting to do what is right/best for him. She is proving that it can be done (with a good horse) on a shoestring budget.
Oh and I'm right there with you Maren about not continuing to attempt to breed the "beautiful, black, dressage type horse". This breed is too diverse to try and cram it into the small corner of that description. I keep saying we need to have more jump in our horses - and I'm not just talking about the "jump over the fences" jump, but also the "jump" frm behind for a good/great canter and push for better trots.
Suzette - I'm 100% with you on everything you said. Including approving more stallions (we have talked about this before right? LOL). Let the market deceide who they will use. And I agree that 2nd Level isn't too much to ask of a horse - and if you have consistent training most horses between 4 and 5 should be able to do it (with a few possible exceptions - but usually it isn't the HORSE, it is the HUMAN that is holding the horse back).
Oh, as for the conversation with an old breeder - it was about the stallion Preussengeist (http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/Inactive/Preussengeist.asp). I commented to his former owner that I hadn't ever seen any of the Preussengeist offspring or even himself in the past and that I really liked him and wished I could find a mare with similar blood and confo (have no idea how he moves, just liked the photo of him). That was when she made the comment that the old lines aren't appreciated as much anymore. And yes, I agree that there were some real "dogs" back in the day and not every piece of blood that was available 20 years ago I would want in my breeding program, I DO like some of the older bloodlines that are now harder to find - like Preussengeist's. I think part of the reason that I liked THIS particular stallion's lines so much is that it is similar to what I grew up riding in Germany - and some of those horses WERE great horses.
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Shawnda
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I have sat on this for a few days, but now I just have to point it out. Peron did not breed much, but he did leave a few decent offspring.
Babylon was a fantastic Amateur Jumper whom dozens of kids learned to ride on, and is the grand-dam of the newly approved stallion Bond. Without Peron, Bond would not exist, and that exceptional rideability has been passed on to another generation.
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Joy
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I've seen a real agreement on this thread that our present stallion performance requirements are a joke, and actually hurt the breed. Then how do we get this changed? There's an annual meeting coming up. Why not propose new requirements? Although we may not agree on what they should be, I think there'll be little disagreement that the bar MUST be raised. Better to raise it to Training Level (which IMO is still too low) than not at all. I'm not going, or I'd propose the subject myself. Anyone interested in putting this forth?
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acottongim
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Shawnda - again, not bashing Peron or his offspring at all. I really don't want anyone to think that!!! It is not uncommon for a horse to be great himself, not reproduce himself, but be a GREAT broodmare sire.
I'll use one of my horse's ancestors as an example: Diplomat Way xx.
Diplomat Way xx is best known as a broodmare sire for racing Thoroughbreds. His impressive race record includes 46 starts with 14 wins, 10 seconds, and 7 thirds, winning or placing in 19 stakes. He is an Arlington-Washington Futurity winner. Diplomat Way sired 34 stakes winners. More impressively is the fact that he is the broodmare sire of 245 mares of which 50 of these mares have in turn produced 65 stakes winners. This gives him the record of 20% stakes producing mares. Diplomat Way boasts an impressive total of Broodmare Sire Earnings of $46,241,361. Some of the noted runners from these mares are Skip Away (who was a 3 time Eclipse Award Winner), Farma Way, Exclusive Partner, General Practitioner, Explosive Bid, Frosty the Snowman, and La Soufriere. During his race career he earned $493,760.
I forget where I got that quote from ... sorry, I would give credit if I remember. I think I complied info from a few different sources. You don't find Diplomat Way offspring, or granddaughters for sale very often as the race people HIGHLY value him in their mare lines.
My point is that Diplomat Way was a good racehorse himself. He was an OK sire, but he made his mark as a BROODMARE SIRE. Peron's get is just getting to the point where we'll see if he'll be more of a broodmare sire himself (and sometimes that is the more important thing! ).
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Shawnda
ata
Gold Medallist
Offline
Posts: 314
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No offence. Peron is the prime example that not all performance horses are breeding stock, and not all breeding stock are performance horses (Joe's point). However, if you do have the right type of mare for Peron, the results can be very good.
I am in agreement that it may be time to increase the difficulty level of the required performance test for our ATA approved stallions.
Great topic for discussion at the up-coming ATA Annual meeting.
Hope to see all fo you there !
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Oakstable
ata
Old Hand
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Posts: 561
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I've been away from this forum for a bit, and I am coming in late on the comments on when to start a horse ...I have a book on training that was written by the late Reiner Klinke and his daughter Ingrid. They say the ideal time to put a horse under saddle is 3.5 years old.
(Yes, lots of ground work can be done before then.)
Hard to argue with their success, eh?
I have a gelding, who just turned 3 at the end of 09/08, and he has been in training for about 5-6 weeks. He is out of my Trakehner mare, Lucy, and is sired by Pablo, the Westphalian. He has done REALLY well, but he really doesn't want to go counter clockwise for very long. The trainer has been getting frustrated with him and I have asked her to back off, and build on what he does well.
On Friday, I asked her to show him the horse trailer for the FIRST time. He put his foot up on the ramp, and walked inside within about 5-10 minutes.
I have another young gelding who took a good hour to accomplish the same thing.
There are no hard and fast rules on starting horses. They are all individuals. The important thing is to build on success and reward heavily when they do something right.
I have a German friend who knows Arabians, tB and Traks really well. She says that working with Trakehners is like working with Arabians, and they require more patience.
The mother of my Pablo gelding had been a broodmare when I bought her. I was curious about getting her trained, so the young woman at the farm got her out one day, then saddled her up and got on the second day. I said, wow maybe she came with training. She said NO, she doesn't know anything, she is just willing.
All individuals ...
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Proud owner of Trakehner mares Lucy and Summer.
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