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Topic: TB blood in US (Read 1640 times)
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
ata
Gold Medallist
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Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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Why are there not more approved TBs in the US? We clearly need the blood, so why are not more horses recruited to go through the approval process?
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fuzzy
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There are a lot of approved TB's if you look across the board at all the WB registries. THe Han, Old, Dutch all use a lot of TB mares. The problem is finding ones that are of sufficient quality to be worthy of contributing to the Trak gene pool. Too many of the TB's in this country have lousy feet, too-light bone, poor movement, or crummy attitudes. And a lot of people aren't interested in breeding good TB's to warmbloods when they can be producing foals that can earn money as oposed to $2.00 ribbons.
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
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Gold Medallist
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Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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Sorry, I meant stallions. Why aren't there more? I understand most of the greats earn incredible fees, but why are they not interested in contributing to the Trakehner? How can we get them interested?
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Carol Austin
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Since the beginning of the trend of importing warmbloods from Europe, the Thoroughbred, once the great American sport horse, has basically gone out of vogue. At some point there will probably be a resurgence of interest in the Thoroughbred as a sport horse, or at least as a respected contributor to sport horse breeding. In Europe they are much more respected, for the many positive qualities they impart, whereas in this country they are sometimes looked upon as a necessary evil, to be bred away from as soon as possible. In Europe, many broodmare shows have classes for halfbloods, acknowledging them for what they are--the cornerstone for improvement in all breeds. Imagine any breed on the planet, minus the Thoroughbred input, and it's not a pretty picture.
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Janet
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Carol, how true. I am very impressed with your comment, as it is so to the point. Being a Thoroughbred connoisseur at heart, one can almost watch some of the warmblood breeds get to a point in their evolution and then they almost seem to scream for help!
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Deb
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I have a TB mare as opposed to a stallion. She is large boned, has good feet, wide-bodied, wonderful attitude (I put riders of lesser experience on her). She's a good mover, not as good as my Falke daughter but still good. She's of Northern Dancer lines and a joy to ride. I probably won't get her inspected simply because I can't get to an inspection. There are Hannovarian, Oldenburg, and American Warmblood inspections not too far away but, I like Trakehners. What can I say, I'm hooked? 
Deb
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Navar
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I have to say that TB's still pretty much have the eventing market cornered. Go to any big event, like Foxhall, Rolex or the Olympics and you will see mostly TB's competing along with all the TB crosses; and probably 99% of the crosses are at least half TB. Say what you want about TBs but they do have incredible "heart".
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helloagain
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Old Hand
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Posts: 622
I LOVE Trakehners!
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I have a PSB TB mare with Northern Dancer and Secretariet in her bloodline. After Secretariet's death an autopsy was done to see if there was a reason he could run so fast, and they found his heart was unusually large. This translated into his being able to use the oxygen in his system very efficiently, and they located the gene that produced this kind of a heart. This is why that gene is considered very favorable when a selection for breeding in the TB world is done. I wonder if that same gene is responsible for TB's doing so well in eventing? Also, Deb, keep looking for Trakehner inspection sites. They change every year and maybe one will be close to your area.
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MarenE
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The problem for the Trakehner breeder in the US is that European TBs look very different to the general US TB. Over here, TB stallions are built like riding horses, with a special trend towards dressage. That's why several of the great old foundation stallions (TB) were so very successful when crossed with Trakehner mares. The European TB is not a sprinter type, as you are more used to, but a steeplechase type horse. Nevertheless, the most common line in Trakehner-TB crosses, is the Nearco-line that also produced Northern Dancer. Some examples:
-Heraldik xx, today THE most popular TB stallion in Germany, since his kids can do both, jump AND move. This black stallion has won international open jumper classes before he was retired at stud. he was bred in the Tchec Republic and has several approved sons in many of Germany's wamblood breeds, also in the Trakehner breed. This stallion is an uphill-built horse with great refinement, but enough correctness to be an interesting partner for many mares.
- Sevillano xx. Lara, you remember him from Leverkusen! Although older, this stallion moves like not even many warmbloods do. Again, a modern horse, with great frame, enough substance, excellent overall conformation, but a little smaller in height. He has approved sons in Germany as well.
- Patricius xx. Founder of the dressage lines of Goldino (Uckermärcker, Uljanoff) and elite stallion Van Deyk (Magritte, Polarion, Kaiserdom, etc).
- Swazi xx, reaching back to old German TB (Birkhahn xx), who sired the elite stallion Consul, and thus also had greatest influence in the breed of Hannover. He also sired other approved sons, among them the international CCI*** stallion Grand Prix (ridden by I. Klimke).
- Pasteur xx, also leading back to old German TB through Bürgermeister xx, he left the breed with uncounted outstanding horses, both in dressage and jumping as well as in breeding (Mahagoni, Michelangelo, just to name the most popular ones).
- a mare for a change: Arcticonius xx, this time an Irish TB mare, had tremendous influence through several sons and daughters: Arogno, Avignon II, Acajou, her daughter Anna Karenina produced the approved Amatcho, Arktis produced the approved Arentino).
- Sir Shostakovich xx, again Irish bred, this stunning and already old stallion keeps producing outstanding talents for the jumper and eventing world. Apart from that, I think there are already 5 or 6 approved Sir-sons and Sir's daughters moved on to produce approved sons themselves (e.g. the dam of Heartbreaker by Hohenstein).
The elite mare program with the Verband currently lists three elite TB mares: Brightness xx by Carvin xx, dam of the approved CCI** winner Bertone by Kostolany, the already mentioned Arcticonius xx and Wundermädel xx by Madruzzo xx, dam of a certain all-star stallion named Windfall. Apart from that, she also produced the CCI*** mare Windspiel and another 3 (!!) top notch event horses.
My point is simple: you want to have access to European style TB that you desperately need, just as much as you need Anglo Arab or full Arab blood? You will have to choose sons and grandsons of these sires. There are several in your country and approved with the ATA. And don't forget to look into the Russian pedigrees as well. They have the best Arabian performance blood in the world!!
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« Last Edit: January 13, 2003, 11:08:56 AM by Boss Mare »
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Navar
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An excellent and informative post Maren!
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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Old Hand
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Posts: 935
TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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Something I always found interesting is that Arcticonius xx descends from the Kentucky Derby winner Hill Gail, who was sold by Calumet Farm to Ireland where he was used to produce sport horses. Obviously sprinting was his style, but he certainly contributed to sporthorse TB breeding in Europe.
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fuzzy
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Isn't the Kentucky Derby a mile and a quarter? Not really a sprint by many standards. And BTW, anyone know how long steeplechase courses are? And does an eventer's steeplechase phase differ in length/dificulty from a 'real' race?
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Cate
Preliminary
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Posts: 87
I LOVE Trakehners!
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I think most steeplechsing begins at around 2 miles [2700m - 3200m], which are considered staying races on the flat.
The big ones like the Grand National I think are in the vacinity of 3.5 - 4 miles, and the fences are very big, it takes a very brave horse with a lot of heart to run those kind of tracks.
Phase B in HT are usually faster and shorter than racing steeplechasing, and the HT jumps are not as big...... I think of it as hurdling with brush fences.
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