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Topic: Trakehner Ads on Dressage Today! (Read 7831 times)
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Karim
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« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:11:02 AM by Karim »
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Maren
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The Bouncer
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Amen!!
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Maren
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The Bouncer
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And BTW, I hope all of you are aware of the fact that w/o Trakehners, there wouldn't be a Gigolo, Weltmeyer, Rubinstein, For Pleasure, Grannus, Rembrandt, etc, etc, etc...
Maybe that should be mentioned to the "big" trainers more often....
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Khataan
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I am curious about those ads in DT. I looked at advertising prices in the index but none were listed. What do those nice one page ads run?
Thanks
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Holekamp
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I LOVE Trakehners!
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About a grand per issue, four color.
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Mary F
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Actually, it's closer to $1500.
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Mary F
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...and it looks like it's $2500 for Dressage Today!
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Khataan
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WOW, those ads are expensive!
Ok stallion owners, how many clients purchased a breeding becuase of the ad? How many by word of mouth or from just knowing your stallion? I guess what I really want to know if the end justifies the mean!
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sherry
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I can give you one viewpoint. My young stallion had a relatively large book, but all of my clients came from word of mouth, the ATA, or from seeing him on the show circuit. I did some investing in national magazine ads--and found that it got me NO interest--not even inquiries--I'm sure it isn't true of everyone, because obviously the owner's wouldn't do it--but that is my experience.
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Karim
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« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:11:21 AM by Karim »
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KS
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And I'll give a different viewpoint.... A large part of the decision to advertise in COTH and DT, is to help promote the breed. Some stallions with full books will continue to advertise - to help promote the breed. Hopefully, those owners who did advertise made the ATA membership proud. And, perhaps, some of the readership of those magazines took a second look. The success of our horses in the show ring, speaks for itself; but it is because of our love and pride of the Trakehner that advertising money is spent.
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Holekamp
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Kumi's point of altruism is a good one, and we can all wish it were in play more often, as when a good ad for a correct and attractive Trakehner stallion appears in a "non-Trakehner" publication we all do benefit, don't we? I did make a misread on my estimate, as I mistook it for the USDF's magazine, the Connection, which IS about a grand and reaches about 13,000 readers. Check the next issue, please. The Chronicle is problematic it is so expensive, but I am beginning to think that for horses of known performance quality small B & W's every month (or every week during the right season) might be far, far more effective than one big four color splash. Will likely try that next year.
Advertising is very expensive and is useful mainly for horses whose names are recognizable by readers, I think. "Emerging" stallions need publicity. Magazine editors and writers are eager to write articles about such animals and for some strange reason tend to do so with more vigor when there is paid advertising in their periodical about that horse.....
Established successful upper level sporthorses get written about anyway, don't they? Almost too much, I think, at least until it includes my own. 
Based on experience, I would agree that the "shot in the dark" ad for an unknown and unproven young sire is going to have little response unless there is a "hook", eg "Here is the only breeding stallion in America from the great Olympic Gold Medalist and sire of champions, EuroPferd!"
Tim
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suzette b
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Ok, I'll bite, and I will put my flame suit on!
There are actually 3 different "types" of advertising here. There is the Stallion Ad, the Farm Ad, and the Breed Ad.
Big Stallion Ads don't really pay for themselves. Statistics show that name recognition is greater for a larger number of smaller ads than for the " big splash" of a 4-color full-page spread. Your return on investment is better on continually keeping a product in front of people in a more subtle fashion. The number of breedings that the big ads bring in DO NOT consistently cover their costs. Most of the successful large adverts are actually Farm Ads in disguise.
Farm Ads, on the other hand, (promoting the stallion as the sire of the product that is for sale), seem to be more worth while, as it does bring in clients who are looking to purchase young stock. These ads seem to be worth the investment for the large farms to promote sale horses. Buyers want to be connected to winning line, and showing them that this is a bloodline that will perform for them, will help to bring in the shoppers.
Breed Ads are very useful tools for the breed, if correctly made to showcase the high quality of the products (sport horses) and their suitability for the sport, thereby building brand loyalty.
Most of the Big Stallion Ads (those that are not Farm Ads in disguise) are not done with financial logic behind them. They are made up emotionally, as a source of pride for the owner, and if that owner can find them easy to afford, you will continue to see them - regardless of the lack of financial return.
However, if the owner is not one of the wealthy crowd, and finds these ads to be a "budget stretcher", she will quickly learn that they do not bring a good return on investment, and they will come to a screeching halt. This quite often happens to a new stallion owner, who thinks that there will be a qreat flock of mare owners racing to be first in line to breed to the newly approved young stallion. They bust the buget - spending $5000, $10000, or more in the first year - before they are even started in this new project! It is sad, because most of these people become very disallusioned, and quit the whole effort when they realize that this is a very long term, negative profit-margin business.
Perhaps someone should print up a booklet for new stallion owners - passing on some of the wisdom that others have learned the hard way before them......
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Holekamp
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Hardly a need for flame suits here...
I think the original question dealt only with stallion ads, namely big stallion ads.
Last year I exclusively advertised in full-page four-color for Windfall and aimed at non-Trakehner readers. The ads definitely paid for themselves twice over, no question. I was fortunate to have a very good product and that is likely the most important factor (that and some very good help in design).
Obviously that could be an anomaly and Suzette's point is a good generality, I think.
The place where stallion ads reflect "emotion" and breed loyalty is in the Trakehner, where a small number of readers are reached, the overwhelming majority of whom already know the horse and contact info. Our magazine is just so doggoned wonderful and so in need of financial support that it seems right to spend there anyway.
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« Last Edit: January 07, 2003, 10:01:14 AM by Boss Mare »
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Equine Connection
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I've been advertising in The Chronicle, H&SH, the ATA stallion issue, as well as several smaller publications and I have been
"polling" my perspective clients since 1995. The Chronicle and H&SH have consistently attracted quite a number of prospective-turned-clients to us, which is very important when promoting a young stallion. As time goes on and a young stallion begins to produce, then "smart" advertising can reinforce word-of-mouth advertising. In our case, we doubled breedings last year and we hope to continue with "consistent" growth as he continues to "earn his wings," so to speak as a high quality stallion who's producing excellent offspring. As time goes on, more breedings come as a result of word-of-mouth as a result of the quality offspring a stallion is producing. But, advertising or no advertising, it all takes "TIME" - no 2 ways about it.
To make a general statement to say that stallion owners advertise out of an "emotional" decision or as a "source of pride" is not accurate. For many stallion owners, a great deal of time, research and effort is put forth before beginning any type of advertising campaign. And I do feel it is a very positive reinforcement for the Trakehner breed to see them nicely advertised in various publications. If we don't keep them out there, people may have a tendency to forget about just how good they really are.
Stallion owners must assess their own situations, markets, etc., etc., and develop a campaign strategy that best suits the needs of the stallion they are promoting. Not all stallion owners (or farms, or breeders) should advertise in the same manner, as it won't work. What works for one may not work for another. I agree, however, that to start with a very high budget advertising very early on can reap some less-than-desirable results. The entire process requires a great deal of thought and planning - IMO. Slower, more consistent growth...
In the early career of any stallion, most owners are going to have to dish out a lot of their own personal funds to promote their young stallion, and it takes a number of years before they will realize any return. I can only say in our case we are seeing a return. We re-evaluate our advertising on a regular basis as external conditions change, so we have to be flexible and experiment a bit. That's just the reality of it. Do we advertise out of "emotion" or "pride" - NO. Having said that, however, I don't think any stallion owner will not experience some sort of positive feelings when viewing their stallion in print.
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Warm Regards,
Renee & Happy Hour
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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The place where stallion ads reflect "emotion" and breed loyalty is in the Trakehner, where a small number of readers are reached, the overwhelming majority of whom already know the horse and contact info. Our magazine is just so doggoned wonderful and so in need of financial support that it seems right to spend there anyway.
This statement is surprising and I think differs from a lot of stallion owners' opinions. What better way is there to reach the Trakehner mare market in North America than through the ATA magazine? That is targeted advertising at its best--all members of the ATA receive the magazine and I don't think anyone just pitches it into the corner.
I think for the average Joe who owns a Trakehner stallion reaching the Trakehner mare owners is a priority. Perhaps not as noticeable with an internationally proven competitor, it can be a chore to draw non-Trakehner mares to a Trakehner stallion. There is the matter of breed prejudice and the fact that only part-bred papers will be available from the ATA for the resulting foal (naturally, except for those from approved TBs and Arabs). I think the owner of a Trakehner stallion would be shooting himself in the foot to neglect the ATA publication and establish a foundation of Trakehner foals on which to base advertising efforts into other breeds and registries.
Of course, it is nice to support the ATA magazine, too 
Remember, Tim, you are dealing with a special commodity and a publicity program not necessarily analagous to that of other stallions. I did not decide to breed to Windfall because of his ads or because I got a direct mail piece about him--I picked him because of what he had done in Europe, because I liked the bloodlines which are not well-represented in the US, and because I liked what I had seen of him on other people's bootlegged tapes (as well as your own). And don't poo-poo word of mouth: it was Maren that let the cat out of the bag and had all of us in NA waiting for his arrival!
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Holekamp
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"There is the matter of breed prejudice and the fact that only part-bred papers will be available from the ATA for the resulting foal (naturally, except for those from approved TBs and Arabs)."
Well, I guess there is lots of room for opinion here, and all I want is for mine not to be misrepresented by others. Nowhere did I disparage the magazine or its readership, nor imply that anyone "throws it in the corner". There are about 1300 readers at most, one-tenth the USEA or USDF's magazines, and the cost of advertising does not reflect that difference, at all. While there may be new stallions owners worried about being unable to attract attention from ATA members who own Trakehner mares, except through paid advertising in the magazine, as you imply, that is more likely perception than reality. ATA members regularly learn about stallions in the newsletter and on the much-visited website, both places that non-members might not access as much. Stallion directories are annually sent to every member. There are other unpaid avenues through the ATA that can send around more expanded information as well, such as Futurity participation.
I am not so sure that you will actually find such disagreement from what I wrote among the regular advertisers in our magazine as you would like to have us believe. I do believe that most of the more frequent and splashier ads are placed mainly to support the magazine and to advertise farms (as Suzette points out), not to garner breeding market share. What difference does it really make anyway? What we need is a fully-funded, high-quality periodical and we have had that for the twenty years I have belonged to the ATA. That comes mainly from a bejillion hours of hard work by an ever-increasing number of devoted member-volunteers, with some $ help both from the ATA membership dues and some from good-hearted advertisers, among whom we at New Spring Farm proudly count ourselves. This is the expanded version of what I wrote in the posting with which you take issue.
And if you carefully read what I have quoted above you will find it to be not quite correct. Part-Trakehner is a category from which descendants can never be promoted to breeding stock for purebreds. All Jockey Club and Arab-registered mares crossed to approved ATA stallions produce Anglo-Trakehners and Arab-Trakehners, not part-Trakehners. Whether those mares are "approved" or not by the inspection committee, their progeny become potential parents of purebred Trakehners, a technicality with very practical differences from what you wrote, though not perhaps from what you intented (I hope).
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Tannenwald Trakehner
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TANZBRISE by Windfall out of Tariana
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lots of room for opinion here, and all I want is for mine not to be misrepresented by others. Nowhere did I disparage the magazine or its readership, nor imply that anyone "throws it in the corner". There are about 1300 readers at most, one-tenth the USEA or USDF's magazines, and the cost of advertising does not reflect that difference, at all.
I don't think anyone misrepresented your opinion. Your statement, which is quoted in my previous post, was that the ads in the ATA mag reflect "emotion" and breed loyalty, as opposed to those in other magazines.
My point is that the ATA magazine may have a smaller readership than others but its readership is highly targeted toward owners of Trakehner mares and Trakehner breeders. A similarly priced ad in Horse Illustrated may have much greater readership but be less cost-effective, because it is not targeted to Trakehner mare-owners as is the ATA mag.
I never said that Trakehner stallion owners could not attract attention from Trakehner mare owners except by paid advertising. Stallion owners have many avenues, either utilizing free resources of the Association, donating a stallion breeding to the ATA auction, or any number of things. [As a mare owner, I have to say a listing in the stallion "directory," which is only a listing of the horses' names, owners, and where they are standing, does nothing for me as far as motivating me to select one stallion over another. Press releases through the newsletter or magazine, ads in the magazine, and entries in the ATA stallion auction booklet (which includes photos and a blurb about each horse) are much more useful promotional tools in the ATA arsenal.]
My comments specifically were pointing out the targeted nature of an ad in the ATA magazine, by implication as opposed to other mags.
As for perception vs reality, I cannot attest to your motives for advertising in the Trakehner magazine or any other, but I know from talking to clients why THEY have chosen the ATA mag as one of their select advertising venues (by display ads and publication of foal announcements) and none have cited "emotion" or "breed loyalty" as a reason. When it comes to advertising budgets, most owners are pitching for return on investment as opposed to warm fuzzies.
I think you are splitting semantic hairs with the excerpt from my post which you quoted (and handily shaded in blue). Foals from mares other than Trakehner, Arab or TB (read Hanoverian, Dutch, Swedish Warmblood, Holsteiner, Oldenburg, etc) will only be eligible for part-bred papers from the ATA. The only word I think you could argue does not belong in my previous statement is "approved," as I was referencing first generation foals from the cross. At the risk of beating this dead horse which is not germane to the original post, you are technically correct that there is a distinction as to the book for Anglo-Trakehners and Arab-Trakehners and their offspring in successive generations.
Finally, I find your allegation that I "would like to have [anyone] believe" anything to be condescending and rather offensive. The idea here is to share opinions, not debate to the death or seek declaration of an absolute "winner." Unless someone wants to start a poll about that.  Lighten up, Tim.
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2003, 12:48:25 AM by Tannenwald Trakehner »
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sherry
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Gads-you guys are too funny!! I certainly would perhaps take a different view if I had a stallion with a proven performance record--but it seems to me that the market for my stallion is the small breeder interested particularly in a Trakeher--that was certainly true with Charly--and I expect it will be the same with Fandango. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there really must be a different marketing strategy depending on the stallion, and on the goals of the stallion owner--looking of course at who the target market is.....
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Suzette B
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Ingrid - want to borrow my flamesuit??
Personally, I think the very best advertising venue for Trakehner stallions is -without a doubt- the ATA magazine. The "bang for the buck" is best there of all possible choices. I agree with Ingrid -Target marketing is the most cost effective.
If the horse in question has a National (or International) ranking (as in Windfall's case, or in the case of someone like Abdullah or Peron), the situation is different. However, the vast, vast majority of breedings to Trakehner stallions come from within the ATA membership.
Especially with newly approved stallions, as those horses are being offered almost exclusively based on their pedigree (as they haven't had much of a career at that point, and haven't produced anything to 'hang their hat on'. And not too many people outside of the ATA membership would recognize and value the young prospective breeding stallion based only on bloodines and 'good looks'.
I also feel that due to the lack of registration options available to offspring of non-Trak (or non-TB/Arab) mares, the 'outside' market is not attracted to Trakehner stallions to the degree that they are to other WB stallions.
It has forced some Stallion Owners (including myself) to seek additional breed registry approvals for our stallions in order to attract a larger audience. It is an added expense, and requires a lot of extra effort on the part of stallion owner. In my case, it also limits the number of Trak mares that I can breed to as my book has to be limited in total number of mares booked.
As to Renee's point that stallion owners do not advertise based on "emotional" reasons, Well, I beg to differ.
I personally know of several stallion owners who don't even breed a single mare, but still buy a full page color spread in COH (and spend untold thousands and thousands of dollars a year) because it makes them proud. If you want, I will send a few names to you....
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Sovereign Farm
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KALUA by Heling
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I can only speak from the newly approved stallion owner perspective but I think that the Trakehner is an excellent place to spend your first advertising bucks. We have so far chosen to spend our money on training so that in the near future we have something TO advertise (other than bloodlines) but the ATA magazine will be among the first places we will place an ad. I fully agree with Suzette that the Trakehner membership have the added knowledge of particular bloodlines and the importance of those lines within the Trakehner breed. Not many people outside of the Trakehner know or care about what mare line your stallion comes from, etc. Together with the fact that it does target the desired audience for most of the Trakehner stallions, I find it a great choice. Hopefully when the time comes, it will be well worth our money!
Heather
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Janet
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Goodness! I close my eyes & I'm at an ATA meeting! Here's a perspective from an owner of Trakehner & Oldenburg mares - me. I don't have a stallion, although I have a yearling that thinks he might be one someday! When I study & search for a stallion for my ladies, my search is pretty much confined to the ATA site & their publications, studying performance records which is the most important criteria for me. I like the proven performance guys.The glossy page ads from all the magazines out there are nice to look at, but I'm more interested in statistics ... probably comes from my old Thoroughbred days. Yes, I have a mare in foal to Windfall, but not because of his nice ads, but because of his achievements. Interestingly enough, I too have spent bigillions of dollars advertising our young stock in all of the "big" magazines; but guess what? None of them sold from those ads. They ALL sold off of the ATA site, a service which is free to us members. None of the buyers were members of the ATA at the time, but they are now. I've seen small b/w ads from the ATA in some of the "big" magazines, but how about a REAL nice color spread ad focusing on the Trakehner horse? I as a breeder would be willing to chip in on the cost. Perhaps a little education would help stallion owners & breeders alike.
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Equine Connection
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"As to Renee's point that stallion owners do not advertise based on "emotional" reasons, Well, I beg to differ.
I personally know of several stallion owners who don't even breed a single mare, but still buy a full page color spread in COH (and spend untold thousands and thousands of dollars a year) because it makes them proud. If you want, I will send a few names to you...."
Suzette - You can "beg to differ" all you want, but it's nice that we can "agree to disagree." Of course, there are always going to be that minority of stallion owners (or in any other discipline that requires marketing) who are going to spend those high dollars and not realize any return - or care if they realize any return, but I think by and large, most (and I repeat "most") of us "average" owners are going to think their individual situation through, research the market conditions (as they certainly differ geographically), the type of target market they feel will reap the best results, etc., etc., etc., and adjust their advertising accordingly. And no, I don't need any names - I probably know who they are already...
IMO, the ATA stallion issue is an excellent means by which to provide exposure for both young and older, more accomplished stallions, and at the same time, it provides some support to the organization.
As I mentioned in my previous post, IMO, the same marketing stategies will not work for everyone as there are too many variables. However, it sounds like most do research to ascertain what will work best in their own situation. 
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Warm Regards,
Renee & Happy Hour
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