 Poll
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| Question: |
Do you think we should make freeze branding an option?
| Yes |
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   11 (42.3%) |
| No |
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8 (30.8%) |
| Look into it more |
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7 (26.9%) |
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| Total Votes: 26 |
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Author
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Topic: Branding (Read 9298 times)
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Canterup
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Posts: 12
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2002, 11:49:28 AM » |
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I don't think hot brands are traumatic to a horse. I have had many horses hot branded and freeze branded, and I prefer the hot. Freeze brands have to stay in contact with the horse's skin a lot longer and you have to clip the hair and clean well with alcohol and sedate the horse, just a pain and takes a lot of time. And, I have seen just as many messed up freeze brands as I have hot brands. JMHO
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sherry
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FEI
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Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2002, 05:34:50 PM » |
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I'm in total agreement on this issue--there are several reasons in my view to continue the hot branding for those who wish to do so--not the least of which is the great history of these horses.
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Canterup
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Posts: 12
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2002, 05:59:09 PM » |
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Christina-
Out of curiosity, which breeds use a freeze brand. I have never seen a breed registry use a freeze brand, only hot. I have been to a lot of inspections and keurings here is the US!
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sherry
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FEI
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Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2002, 06:37:26 PM » |
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Best example is probably the arabs in this country---the mustang folks do it as well, I think
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fuzzy
Guest
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Re:Branding
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2002, 07:03:01 PM » |
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Yep - BLM capture-and-auction horses do get freeze-branded so they can be indentified if people who adopt them try to make a qhick buck by putting them in the 'kill pen' - which used to be common and is against the BLM adoption rules.
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Canterup
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Posts: 12
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2002, 07:04:41 PM » |
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totally forgot about Arabians! Duh...
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Lara, Gryphon Farm
ata
Gold Medallist
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Posts: 291
Trakehner Cowgirl
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Re:Branding
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2002, 10:34:58 PM » |
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Icelandics are freeze-branded as well. They are known for being the most well-preserved and pure breed. I must say however that a nice hot brand looks very elegant in comparison to the white freeze brand. I can't imagine being freeze-branded is comfortable either.
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Navar
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Re:Branding
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2002, 01:11:36 PM » |
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My biggest problem with the hot branding is that on most horses I have seen with the brand, you can hardly tell it which to my mind raises the question: What's the point? At least the freeze branding (when done correctly) is visible and legible. I do like the idea of branding. The traditional freeze branding mark beneath the mane of Arabians has probably saved countless horses from being killed for slaughter, so it does have value. Either the current hot brand method needs to be improved, so that you can actually make out the brand without shaving the hair surrounding the brand, or it needs to be switched to the more noticeable freeze branding. JMO.
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EclypseSporthorses
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Old Hand
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Posts: 994
Go The Distance
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Re:Branding
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2002, 02:20:20 PM » |
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Navar stated the point more clearly than I did, thank you Navar. I'm not sure which breed it was we saw the brand on, though I did notice how clear and easy to read the freeze brand was. We were more interested that it seemed to have turned out so much better than the branding we had JUST gone through, with no visible brand for all the hassle.
We did have a bad experience with hot branding our horse, I know it was a rare case, and the very kind brander appoligized for it. I'd have to say I don't think it would have been the same with freeze branding, though I may be wrong. Personally, I would not mind having my horse sedated for the procedure, it is only what, $12 to sedate to ensure a good brand is applied? It would be worth it. Like Navar said, if you have to point out the brand to someone, the brand is not obvious enough to be doing its job.
Jim & I would like to see freeze branding as an option. Branding is a great way to let people know what kind of horse you are showing, is good for preventing a horse being slaughtered, and is a great way to start conversations about the breed-as people notice the brand-which if they can't see it how can they notice it?? The freeze brand would be much more noticable and would serve the purpose of a brand better by being more noticable.
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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sherry
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Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2002, 02:29:54 PM » |
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I've got no quarrel with options--I prefer both the look and the protocol for hot branding--but as long as it's a choice and not a requirement that any branding be freeze branding, it's fine with me. I've had nothing but good experience with the hot branding--and it's always visible enough for me.
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jodie
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Novice
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Posts: 6
I love Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2003, 07:13:04 PM » |
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I have a 4 year-old Trakehner/TB (PSB) who was inspected and approved. I have paid the $90 to have her branded and have contacted the regional brander. I like the idea/tradition of branding. I think that the brand is a wonderful way to advertise our talented horses.
However, I have chickened out. 
Should I have her branded?
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sherry
ata
FEI
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Posts: 223
I love Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2003, 07:16:58 PM » |
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The rules always make me crazy unless I sit down and read them while I'm musing a particular question. It is my understanding that PSB horses are not eligible for branding with a purebred Trakehner brand. I'm not particularly fond of the Anglo/Trakehner brand--but if your mare is eligible--I'd do it in a heartbeat--I like the looks, and I've had nothing but excellent results.
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sherry
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Re:Branding
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2003, 07:19:36 PM » |
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Oops--I meant to say eligible for the purebred brand.
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Wolftrak
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Preliminary
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Posts: 61
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2003, 09:52:58 AM » |
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I think the brand is a great way to advertise our breed. I think the pure-bred brand is attractive, but I am with you Sherry, that the part-bred brand is not. When we are at shows I am always looking at hips to see what kind of horse is in the ring. We had two fillies branded this year, and while I am sure it was uncomfortable for them, they never showed any distress.
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Wendi
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Preliminary
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Posts: 66
I love my Trakehner!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2003, 04:05:53 PM » |
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Jodie, I had my 9 year old mare branded a couple of months ago at Valhalla (the previous owners never had it done). I chickened out in the fact that I made my husband hold her. The weanling that went first took it worse than my mare. She just turned and snorted and that was it. I don't believe she was too upset by the ordeal. While her brand will not be as big as if it was done as a foal, it looks great because it isn't stretched out.
Wendi
by the way, recently went to see the Lippizans in town and noticed how prominent their brands were. When asked, they told me they are hot branded when young, and the brand is penciled in with black eyeliner before each show. Found that interesting. Cheers!!!
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Holekamp
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Posts: 21
I LOVE Trakehners!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2003, 04:27:00 PM » |
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Your ATA Branding Committee (at present, me) thanks all who have expressed an opinion and would like to encourage much more of the same. Those who have recently received questionnaires from me about horses branded in recent years are strongly encouraged to fill them out frankly and sent them in. We very much seek feedback on results, impressions and so on. Glad to hear Wendi's report from recent meeting.
There DOES seem to me to be at least a bit of a problem with "invisible" brands on some horses, and not just the result of coat color. Our branders need to know if there are some of us who consistently do well in this dept, and others who do not, so that we may improve.
Hot branding is indeed far less "traumatic" than freeze branding. All who seek to know more about this might consider attending a hot branding session at a meeting or mare inspection. Valhalla provided a very good opportunity to demonstrate the lack of "trauma". Those who have witnessed freeze branding might consider making a detailed description here on this discussion thread. I understand the materials are expensive?
I think freeze branding is unlikely to make the cut as an option in the near future, but minds remain open at all times on this and other aspects of branding.
tim
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EclypseSporthorses
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Re:Branding
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2003, 06:51:11 PM » |
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Tim,
I agree that if you only have to do it once, the hot branding is not bad. In our case, let me first say the brander was very nice, ....the problem was I had offered to the brander that I would clip the area to be branded, because of the winter coat- he said no, that he hadn't had a problem with winter coats before.
Long story made short, the brand didn't take and we had to haul him to another state to have him re-branded.
However- I was unaware of how terrified my horse would become the SECOND TIME he heard and smelled the torch fired up to heat the branding iron.
My horse began shaking terribly and to cower against the wall, shaking so badly his knees began buckling in fear.
As the brander started practicing with the cold iron, the horse began trying to kick at the branding iron. This horse had never previously or since tried to kick.
I thought it had been decided at that point that we would not go through with the branding and then the brander must have chosen to try it and before I knew it they had applied the hot brand and because the horse jumped and kicked so hard, the hot iron dug deeply into his skin, causing the horse to bleed. This is why I, personally am interested in the cold branding- and that the brand is so clear. I am glad you, as part of the ATA Branding Committee, have read this poll, as you can see, there is an interest in freeze branding. Why wouldn't freeze branding be an option?As far as the expense, I wouldn' t mind a little more expense to avoid an "invisible" brand.
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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Wendi
ata
Preliminary
Offline
Posts: 66
I love my Trakehner!
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Re:Branding
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2003, 07:08:13 PM » |
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When Tristi was branded at Valhalla the gentleman doing the branding (I am sorry I do not remember his name) recommended clipping her prior to branding her. As far as freeze branding, I believe that is far more traumatic to the horse. My Arabs have been freeze branded, and the brand had to sit far longer than the hot iron. And, my Arab seemed to have more pain with the healing than Tristi. Just my opinion!!
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Karim
Guest
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Re:Branding
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2003, 07:22:57 PM » |
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Someone please answer my question. Are PSB mares eligible for the double moose antler brand, or only the AT brand?
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sherry
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Re:Branding
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2003, 07:45:59 PM » |
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Karim-okay-I looked it up--the short answer is no. Part Trakehner PSB mares can be branded with the Part Trakehner brand, if desired, and the offspring out of PSB mares by OSB stallions are eligible for the purebred brand. As a practial matter, many PSB mares are Thoroughbreds or Arabs--why on earth with we want them branded with a Trakehner brand? The question I have tactically is this--I have an Trakehner/Arab colt that is eligible for a purebred brand--he's also eligible to be competed as a half-arab on the Arab Circuit. I'm not at all sure that I shouldn't wait to find out what his lot in life is going to be before I have him branded. Can you imagine the strange looks of the Arab judges?
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Karim
Guest
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Re:Branding
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2003, 07:54:49 PM » |
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Sherry, Thank you for your prompt response. I am still a bit confused. Some of the best comtamporary mares we've had in the trakehner breed are Arcticonius xx the dam of Arogno. She has been designeted as an elite mare, so has the dam of Windfall, Wundermaedel xx. My PSB mare is only one quarter thoroughbred. Her dam "Make A Wish" is half. How can a non-OSB mare have an approved son (see Marquee by Shoenfeld)?
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sherry
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Re:Branding
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2003, 08:04:27 PM » |
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Karim--the short answer is YES!!! For instance, a TB mare accepted for PSB is eligible to produce an approved stallion as long as the sire is an approved stallion. My little half Arab has a purebred Arab PSM mom--(Do you remember her from the inspection in Moorpark?)and he is eligible to become an approved stallion--just as TF Peron or whatever that guys name is. We spent a look of time joking about what would we have if we bred my purebred Arab PSB mare to the purebred Arab approved stallion Aul Magic--The answer is you've have a purebred Arab--the PSB mare must be bred to an approved stallion, which on the face of it look possible--and although I can't find it in the rule books, I'm told that an approved non-Trakehner must be bred to an approved Trakehner to count. Does that help?
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Karim
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Re:Branding
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2003, 08:11:05 PM » |
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Yes your explanation does make sense. What confusues me is that my mare's dam, "Make A Wish" is not a PSB nor an OSB. She is only approved by the Oldenburgers. But her son Marquee is an approved Trakehner Stallion!!! For more info, please go to: http://www.americantrakehner.com/Stallions/Marquee.asp
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What do you think of them being an option? Those who don't like them can stick with hot branding or not branding at all, though I'd like to see them be an option.