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Topic: A question of energy, a stallion, a girl, a mom (Read 3046 times)
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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I'm posting this under "Horse Care" instead of "Health" because while it may technically be a health issue it's maybe more of a I really care about my horse thing...
I'm new to the board, and I'm new to horse ownership as an adult. And I live in Turkey, where things are done a little differently, so I need some advice on what to do with my 11-year old stallion, G.
I bought him in November from my daughter's dressage trainer,, for my daughter. Trainer and daughter worked for two months together with G. before trainer suddenly declared she was leaving to join her man friend in Germany. Until mid-January we thought she was coming back, so daughter, let's use her initial, S., rode on her own. She is a junior level dressage rider, horse is S-level.
We had changed clubs to be with this trainer. New club has very nice people. When we initially interviewed the manager, I said "my daughter only does dressage. Will you be able to support her?" He said "Yes, of course!" but they are all jumpers with ZERO interest or knowledge in dressage and ZERO interest in helping a young rider who is feeling unsure in the arena and they are all zipping around. The club is in a very urban setting, no paddock, no turnout, just lunge and ride...They've done nothing to help.
Well, to make a long story short, once the trainer left it became apparent that she had had G. lunged in the morning and then rode him herself before my daughter's lesson and then she would ride him...so with the trainer gone, even with lunging, we suddenly have a boy with a whole lotta energy...and he dumped my daughter twice and went on big gallops around the arena...
Both times I then took over and rode while she recovered. That was fine. I really enjoy him, even though I am an old cowgirl. Then last week, just as she was about to ride again,I was warming him up outside and he reared up on me and I fell off (no harm)...and she decided she didn't want to ride him anymore...or any other horse for that matter...
This was a big crisis. I made some big decisions. I know it is an energy problem, not a temperament problem. He is otherwise a total sweetie.
Tomorrow I am transferring him to another club, one out in the countryside with full turnout and and a trainer who seems to know about dressage (this seems to be the best we can hope for)
(in the mean time I manage to get my daughter up on a friends roly poly Irısh Cob, so that idea of "no riding" is gone")
So...I arrive at my question...I am putting G. (our horse) in a best-case scenario. Full turnout capability, trainer every day, a nice teacher to get my daughter back in the saddler. d**n if I won't have to drive and hour to and an hour back, but what the heck...
What if I had G. castrated? Could someone discuss this with me? I'd rather not do it, though when I stop to think about it, I couldn't really tell you why I'd rather not. That's why I'm writing all of this here and asking for advice. I really like this horse. I love his attitude. He's 11. I'd like to keep him until he's an old man, so I need to find a solution to this problem with my daughter or she and my husband will make me sell him and replace him with something else.
Here's what I know, for discussion's sake:
He's 11, Anglo Arab. I don't think he is registered. He hasn't got a brand. I think he can't have been considered to have been of great value for breeding or the Bulgarians would not have let him out of the country. (On the other hand, stallions are very common here). I don't have any plans to breed him.
I have a feeling my daughter would feel more comfortable if he were gelded...but would having him gelded really make that much of a difference at his age?
I can't find much information about this subject by Googling. All I can find is horror stories about stallions...
Well, thank you very much,
Kate in Istanbul, going off to see her G.-man
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tinkerbell
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Posts: 41
Tintenherz and Teamgeist by Bergamo
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Hi Kate,
this is a problem.
For the last 20 years I have had stallions at different ages.
In some posts you can see my stallion Bergamo, 22, who is a darling. So I think, I have some experience with stallions myself. I come from germany, so don't mind my funny english
I also think, that your stallion mainly has too much power. Obviously he is not mean or something, nor extremely dominant etc.
So I think, you should wait and see, how things develop in the new stable.
If G. is not used to a total 'urban' life, maybe this could be part of the problem. My stallions react sensible to any change in their lifes, and roaming around free on a paddock in sight , better in contact, to other horses keeps them relaxed.
if there is a possiblity for G. to go out on a paddock for an hour or two, maybe it is all the difference.
Also, you could check his food. Now he is working less, he should need less food too. Anyway, usually Trakehners need less food than others. Try food with low protein, shorten it radically down to a kg a day (max!), but see he gets lots of hay. That should cool him down a bit.
Your trainer, who sold him to you, must have thought him a good charakter, other she couldn't have dared sell him to a 15y old unsecure girl.
Of course you can geld him. But as the hormonal status is changing slowly, it will take month, until he will change his behaviour. He will always be more 'male', more 'macho' than other geldings are, but he will change for sure, even if he is 11y old now.
Gelding is more risky than it is with a yearling, too.
As gelding him is irreversible, you could try other things, as described above, first. I am sure, being a stallion is part of his special charme. He will lose that mostly too.
Please, tell us, what is happening.
Greetings from Germany to Istanbul!
Angela
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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Hello, and thanks,
I was at our club. There is a big competition this weekend (jumping, of course) with horses from clubs from all over the country. There is G.'s cousin, from Bulgaria there, a mare about the same age-- they even look the same (although G. is more handsome, naturally!)-- and he said she is the same. His rider is the same age as my daughter-- in fact the two girls are good friends-- (that girl is half German, mine is half American, but you might be interested to know my surname is Kranzler...)...The groom said that he always lunges Diana before Melanie can ride, otherwise it is a wild ride. Too much power. She is a great jumper. Also a Trekehner, a gorgeous chestnut. Long before I knew G. existed, I wished I had a horse like Diana.
So, I think we will go with the new club, the turn outs into paddocks, and less grain before anything surgical. This information about Diana I think will go a long way in persuading my daughter that there is nothing unusual in G. exuburance.
Personally, except for the part where I fell off and hit the ground, I like G.'s power. I'm kind of a macho mama.
I appreciate your view very much. Thank you.
I am so looking forward to seeing him see the green grass tomorrow.
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Elizabeth
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Posts: 177
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Make sure you keep us updated! Although I have far less experience with stallions that some of the people on this board, I would also caution the wait and see approach. A horse going from no turnout to regular turnout is a different animal. I'm moving my two mares at the end of the month to a new facility (after 2 1/2 years I was asked to leave, I believe it is because I questioned the trainer's interest in teaching a few weeks ago) with a lot less turnout than they are used to. Both mares are used to 24/7 turnout in a medium sized pasture (2 acres) and are going down to 6 hours a day of turnout in a small area. However, the new barn is only 15 minutes from my house, so I will be able to ride more often. I am dreading those initial first few weeks, though, the whole "adjustment" period. Luckily, the new barn is willing to work with me, and if I want my horses out 24/7 they will oblige. On the other hand, the small paddocks do not have shelter from the elements so that will bias how long they are outside each day.
I used to do the 45 minute drive, and believe me it gets old. Maybe there will be a trainer at the new place who can school G. regularly and take some of the edge off? Then you will not feel pressured to be at the barn every day, and can enjoy the days you are there rather than feel obligated to the horse. I've found that it is so important to board at a facility where other riders share your interests. My previous barn was a hunter jumper facility, with much of the zipping you discussed. It is unnerving. My eight year old mare stood idly by while other horses literally would run into her, but I never rode my younger mare because I know she would kick in that situation. I don't blame her, I feel like kicking out sometimes too 
Good luck with your move and let us know how it goes! I would wait a month, and if no improvement with turnout, more work, and changed feed, go ahead with the gelding. As you mentioned, his value as a breeding animal is probably not substantial, so the "only" thing you would change is him temperament. We had an older dog (4-6, not really sure of his age as he was a rescue) neutered last year and there was not a huge change in his character. I have heard varying stories of the effect castrating has on other animals, but if it becomes a safety issue or a sale versus keep issue, I would try it. You can always have him collected before gelding if you think he may have future value as a breeding animal.
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Elizabeth
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tinkerbell
Novice
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Posts: 41
Tintenherz and Teamgeist by Bergamo
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--off topic --
---just this moment it occured to me, his name could be 'Gentle Giant'---.
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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Hello Elizabeth,
The guys at the new place will ride if we can't make it out. The friend I have who keeps her two horses there swears by them. We have similar ideas about things, so I trust her. The head trainer is very kind. My daughter took to him immediately, which is rare. She has a finely tuned BS sensor.
The plan is for Muzaffer, the trainer there, to school G. and assess this energy business for us. I'll be able to go out two or three times a week with my friend Karen. We'll take general lessons and/or ride in the forest. My daughter will ride on the weekends. She was riding five days a week, but I think two days a week wlil be enough until she gets her confidence back-- and I want her to really WANT to ride more and ASK to ride more before she does.
We will also get to spend time with G. just hanging out. In the city club, our groom is very possessive of his responsibilities and will not let us tack up or untack on our own. I think this has been part of the problem. In the new place, we will be able to hang out with G. and get to know him as an individual. My friend does clicker training with her horses. That might be fun. We just want to see him take off at a trot into a pasture!
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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He's only 16.2 hands...not quite a giant, although he is gentle...Maybe Gentle George
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tinkerbell
Novice
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Posts: 41
Tintenherz and Teamgeist by Bergamo
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But gigantic power....
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EclypseSporthorses
ata
Old Hand
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Posts: 994
Go The Distance
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Smart Paks has a supplement called Quiessence that is mainly a magnesium supplement. Many horses that lack magnesium can seem to act ADHD, spooky, sore backed etc. It may be a long shot, though it is an inexpensive and safe option to add to your daily routine. There are several calmative supplements available. Horses & people can be lacking in magnesium very easily, as it is a macro mineral that must be ingested daily. It is interesting reading to google magnesium and find out how a lag in it can effect our horses muscles, moods & temperament.
We order our supplements at SmartPak, you them out at www.smartpakequine.com
I have read that a horse can take up to six months to have noticeable changes after gelding, though they most certainly will be there. Just curious, if not breeding, why not geld?
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"Delight yourself also in the Lord,
And He shall give you the desires of your heart."
Psalm 37:4
~*Ride-Far-Ride-Well*~
*^The Sky's the Limit^*~
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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This is what I am noticing, being new to stallion ownership. Over here in Turkey, his being a stallion is not really a big deal and when I mention gelding him as a solution everyone, and I mean *everyone* has said this is not his problem. On other horse forums, where the people are mostly from the U.S., the response has been "how can you even think of letting your 15 year old even *approach* a stallion, they are *all* vicious, our stable owner has one but he keeps it down the road!"
Is this feeling connected to insurance issues? I get the same kind of reaction online when I say I drive a very small car in Istanbul, a place which has insane drivers and roads with potholes that can swallow you complete, and these online people are convenced suburban driving in the U.S. requires an SUV..."what, are you insane?"
But when gas here is $6 a gallon I say, no, driving a small car is quite sane, thank you very much. I need my cash to feed my dangerous steed!
The magnesium idea sounds interesting, although living in Turkey, it would be difficult to get a steady supply of such a product. I'll see if anyone is carrying it locally (you never know).
The friend that I am going to be riding with now has a vet that specializes in back pain (I guess that would make him a chiropractor). I'll have him give G. the once-over, just to rule out back pain, and have him check saddle fit, too.
We move G. today!! My camera is all cahrged up...Can't wait.
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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The move went smoothly-- our horse was very surprised to find himself in the countryside...for about two minutes! and then he was very happy! We've owned him five months and it was the first time we ever heard him niegh or whinny or make any kind of emotional sound except for a little squeal when we tighten his girth. A great day. Here he is, in his new digs:
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Joy
ata
Old Hand
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Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
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KatieK, if you can find Mag Phos tissue salts, which are very inexpensive, a few a day will help any muscle issues. Finding the Mag Phos (Magnesia Phosphorica) would depend on finding someplace that sells homeopathic remedies. Each vial contains about 100 pillules, and you'd give 2 at a time, once or twice a day. For more information, see http://homepage.ntlworld.com/homeopathy_advice/Remedies/TISSUE_SALTS/tissuesalts.html I've used Mag Phos myself for recurring muscle cramps, and as long as I take it sort of regularly, it fixes the problem. You may be able to order it, depending on the customs regulations.
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KatieK
Novice
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Posts: 18
I love Trakehners!
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Thank you very much. Today we took all of our equipment to the new place and as we were unloading the new guys said, "What, no supplements?" (in Turkish) so we'll be talking this over this week.
Something great happened today. I had him lunged, then had one of the teachers ride him, then I rode him for a few minutes, but he was very sweaty and I had another plan...so I rode over to where my daughter was sitting and asked if she would ride at a walk and cool him down-- and she said yes and hopped on! She walked and even trotted a bit 
(She'd been too frightened to get on him for the last two weeks)
The new instructors were there. They walked around with her and talked and joked with her. It might be a while until she's back to where she was-- but at least she is on her way...whew...
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