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Topic: Determining value (Read 4815 times)
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SteveSamples
FEI
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Posts: 176
I love Trakehners!
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Dear Friends,
I find myself in the unfortunate position of very relunctantly needing to sell my Trakehner mare.
(Note to Forum: I'm not marketing here, just want some guidance).
Since I've had no intention of ever doing this I have no idea of how to go about pricing her. Are there any stats, published amounts, etc. that could give me a starting point? I know that age, training, breeding, whether or not she's in foal (cross my fingers!), show record, geography, do dah do dah, enter into it, but I don't know what a basic starting point would be before adding/subtracting these factors.
I have read with great interest the thread about marketing stallions, and realized that I'm facing some of the same issues. I can especially relate to the part about doing well at an inspection and then trying to cash in on that (though I know a stallion inspection is order of magnitude greater than a PSB mare).
When I worked in the TB industry we had guidelines based on stud fee as a starting point then add or subtract for dam & other quality factors. Since TK stud fees basically hover around $1,000, without the wild swings in the racing industry, this doesn't seem to be a good indicator.
Any insights would help.
Blessings,
Steve +
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fuzzy
Guest
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Very sorry to hear your problem.  We all know how much you had been looking forward to a future with this horse. Well, a place to start it what you got the horse for, how much she has learned with you, and combing through as many ads as you can for horses as similar as possible, looking at the price tags, how much time they've been on the market, and how much the sellers are wiling to negotiate.
And of course, looking out for BS in those ads. I had a final falling out this year with someone I didn't care to associate with anyhow over ethics and morals. She sold her son's pony for several times a reasonable value after having done nothing with it for four years - on the merit of a major pack of lies in the ad. She lied about the pony's age, training, and gaits (called it five-gaited, when it only had three true gaits, and two speeds of "scramble" as the result of being a mutt of of god-knows-what heritage and no education) She had the dumb luck of finding a buyer with more money than brains, and no trainer to spot frauds for her. I'll have a good laugh when that behavior bites her in the @&&, and hasten the occurrence if I get the chance.
I give this advice not as a suggestion to tempt your luck for more $$$, ;)but as a caveat in reading the ads you may use as a guide for writing your own. I haven't always got the most $$$ I could have for horses I've sold, but I've always been very clear and honest about their skills, and they all went to the right kind of places. Sure, the $$ is great, but being fair to the horse and keeping one's reputation clean are paramount to many of us on this board.
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Joy
ata
Old Hand
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Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
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I'm so sorry to hear that you have to give up your mare, Steve. What a bummer! But circumstances change, and life isn't always what we want it to be.
You can actually use those ads with BS to find out what horses with those skills and training are worth, whether or not the horse being advertised qualifies. I agree with fuzzy, though, that the most important thing is to be absolutely honest in your own ad, because you want the mare to go to the best place possible and yet still get a fair price for her. I haven't raised that many babies--less than a dozen--but I've always been really picky where they go, and even then have made some errors, though luckily the horses have so far ended up in the right place.
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SteveSamples
FEI
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Posts: 176
I love Trakehners!
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Thanks for the feedback. So what are the avenues for advertising? Sorry to sound like such a neophyte. I bought Copper from her breeder upon the recommendation of my riding instructor, which I think was perfect.
I can do classifieds in the ATA Journal & Newsletter I guess. Since she's 1/2 Arab and double-registered I would think that some sort of Arab source would be good, especially since sporthorse is becoming more popular with them.
I'm definitely behind in her training, but I would like to try to get her to the 2 state fairs in OK (yes, I know, because of the rivalry between OKC & Tulsa we seem to have 2 state fairs). I'm wondering if, even if I don't get her in a lot of classes, just getting her to the fair where there are lots of people is good marketing. Has anyone done this with any success?
Blessings,
Steve +
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Joy
ata
Old Hand
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Posts: 1,270
I love Trakehners!
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I've done most of my successful advertising on the internet, including the ATA. I haven't found fairs to be a good place to market, but other people may have different experiences.
Definitely Arab owners and lists would be a good place to go. Arab/warmblood crosses are very popular now, and with good cause.
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Deb
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Posts: 208
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I can't really help answer your question. Just wanted to say how sorry I am that you have to sell her. 
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Elizabeth
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Posts: 177
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Steve, I'm also really sorry that you have to sell your mare. I've been to many state fairs, but never have seen anything priced over $2,500 (with bargaining room there). Seems like mostly 4-H in the horses, and those kids don't have much to spend on mounts.
Do you really need to sell your mare? I know that I've panicked a few times over the past few years when life circumstances changed, and immediately assumed that I would have to sell one or both of my mares. Things have a way of working out, even if they look really bleak. Believe me, I know! I lost my job a few weeks ago, my first "real" job out of school, and was (and still am) depressed about it. Now, my husband and I are kicking around the idea of just starting our own firm. Who knows if we'll actually do it or not, a lot has to do with whether we can sell the idea to a bank for a business loan.
Maybe, if you can just hold out for a few months, circumstances will change again, and you would regret having sold your mare. Maybe you can just lease her to a farm for a year? Or find someone who would be interested in keeping her foal (if she is pregnant) in exchange for a year or two of board and care???
In my area, which is Iowa, it seems that a few top notch, bombproof, proven competition horses sell each year, but most of the sales that occur are on the lower end, under $5,000. With the number of greenies available, it is a buyer's market. Anything around here that is not the aforementioned competition horse is considered a greenie. If that is the case in your area, and you absolutely must sell your mare, I would suggest to find the best home possible. The peace of mind you'll receive will be worth more than a thousand or two more to sell her to a shady home or to someone you don't have a good feeling about. Also, try to get a right of first refusal in the sales contract. Most people are willing to agree to that.
When I was in a panic and thought I had to sell Holly, I had a lot of responses on dreamhorse.com and www.warmbloods.net but mostly tire kickers. I did not have a video, which is what everyone wanted.
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Elizabeth
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SteveSamples
FEI
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Posts: 176
I love Trakehners!
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Elizabeth,
You are so kind, and so helpful.
As much as I love horses, I have never been one to treat them as pets. I've tried to stay slightly detached emotionally. Of course, I'd never owned a TK before Copper. When I went to the stables today she came running to see me like a puppy dog would (of course, she can be independent at times too). We are going through a stressful time right now, trying to keep all the plates spinning until we sell our Colorado house, and still recovering from the auto accident and an insurance adjuster from hell. I know that you're right, if we can see our way through this it'll be OK. For one, Copper is one of my most valuable escapes when I get overwhelmed. Part of me cannot imagine not having her around.
Maybe there's a silver lining ... I'm an Episcopal priest, maybe I should develop a retreat based on the spirituality of the horse. Copper's sure been therapeutic for me.
Again, thanks Elizabeth. BTW, you mentioned a "firm", are you an attorney?
Blessings,
Steve +
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SteveSamples
FEI
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Posts: 176
I love Trakehners!
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Thanks for the encouragement, Elizabeth. SRS+
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Deb
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Posts: 208
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I don't have any further suggestions for you but I just read this thread and wanted to express my sympathy. I'm so sorry to are having to face doing this.
Deb in KY
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SteveSamples
FEI
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Posts: 176
I love Trakehners!
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I have been so busy lately that I haven't kept up with this forum, though it is my favorite horse site. Since Deb resurrected this thread may I report that we've gotten through the toughest of our tough times, Copper foaled a GORGEOUS Tycoon filly in May, and I couldn't be prouder of either one of them. Great conformation, presence, straight legs, super intelligent, and of course all the personality in the world. My dilemma now is "What does one do when they have their dream horse"? Of course I want to keep her and enjoy her forever, but with finances always in the background (maybe that's the problem, they should be in the foreground) I feel that I should sell her, hopefully for what I think she's worth (and I'm still semi-objective about this). The verdict's still out, but I am soooo happy that I still have my beautiful TK mare... plus a bonus.
Blessings,
Steve +
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helloagain
ata
Old Hand
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Posts: 622
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Congratulations to you and your mare. Do we get to see a picture of this little girl? I assume you mean the Tycoon here in the States and not the one in Germany. I think it's onfusing to have 2 active stallions with the same name.
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WendiK
FEI
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Posts: 147
I love my Trakehner!
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Your story is so similiar to mine. I almost had to part with Abby a few months ago. Fortunately I held out and am able to keep her (hopefully for good). I am glad it seems to be working out for you!!!
wendi
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SteveSamples
FEI
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Posts: 176
I love Trakehners!
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Yes, I really do need to get pictures on-line. My wife said she'll help me with that this week.
I love to ride, but I think I'm really a breeder at heart. To take Copper through this process and then be so pleased with the result (by the American Tycoon) and to bring her along is exhilirating, relaxing, and just therapeutic for me.
Now I'm trying to convince my wife that we need to do it again! I'll never learn 
Blessings, Steve +
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